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The mask issue cannot be brushed off by saying that 'mask mandates are important', if you support them, it directly contradicts your argument. To use your language:
"Having a law that says you may not choose not to wear an unwanted mask is not necessary. Information about risks associated with not wearing it should be delivered. This is not a government decision. It is a woman, her family and medical professionals."
See what I mean? You can certainly make an argument to say that mask mandates are important, but you cannot make such an argument if your chief principle is bodily autonomy. If you believe that the government can make laws about people's bodies if there is a very slim chance that you might transmit an illness that has a slim chance of killing someone, then you cannot say that the government cannot make laws in the case of abortion, where it is not a slim chance of transmission, but a guarantee (In >99% of cases) of killing the child.
To put it simply: If you support abortion but believe that the government has the right to tell women what to do with their bodies via mask mandate, you are not a supporter of "her body her choice" or "Pro-Choice", at all, simply "Pro-Abortion."
For me, at least, I cannot speak for everyone, my issue is with homicide, not death broadly written. I do not think that it is the place of government to decide how one manages risk factors for their own body, someone can eat McDonald's every day if they want to, it should not be illegal. Rather, the place of law is to prevent someone for deliberately killing someone else's body if they are an innocent, in this case, the child.
A prayer for Good Friday
Jesus,
Today we pause to remember your sacrificial love
That shone light into the darkness
That bore life from such emptiness
That revealed hope out of devastation
That spoke truth through incrimination
That released freedom in spite of imprisonment
And brought us forgiveness instead of punishment.
Thank you that we can now walk in the light of your life,
Hope, truth, freedom and forgiveness,
This day and everyday.
Amen.
Horatius Cocles, American antartica, Meltama, and New Kiwis
Jesus? Oh God I apologize I was thinking this was organization of Right to Life not organization for Jesus & Company lol sorry
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4LY3Zg9z8No
"23 Jesus replied to them: Now the hour has come for the Son of man to be glorified.
24 In all truth I tell you, unless a wheat grain falls into the earth and dies, it remains only a single grain; but if it dies it yields a rich harvest." John 12: 23-24
"14 as Moses lifted up the snake in the desert, so must the Son of man be lifted up
15 so that everyone who believes may have eternal life in him.
16 For this is how God loved the world: he gave his only Son, so that everyone who believes in him may not perish but may have eternal life.
17 For God sent his Son into the world not to judge the world, but so that through him the world might be saved.
18 No one who believes in him will be judged; but whoever does not believe is judged already, because that person does not believe in the Name of God's only Son.
19 And the judgement is this: though the light has come into the world people have preferred darkness to the light because their deeds were evil.
20 And indeed, everybody who does wrong hates the light and avoids it, to prevent his actions from being shown up;
21 but whoever does the truth comes out into the light, so that what he is doing may plainly appear as done in God.'" John 3:14-21
This region has a lot of Catholic nations, and was founded by a Catholic nation. So, we allow people to post prayer here, if someone wanted to post an Islamic prayer, for example, they would also be welcome on grounds of religious tolerance. Being a region focused on the pro-life movement does not preclude us from posting about other topics, including faith-based ones if our faith-based members or allies want to. Obviously, I hope the RMB does not descend into endless religious debates, but I think posting a prayer during an important religious holiday for many here should be welcomed.
New Dolgaria, Horatius Cocles, Phydios, Failesian empire, and 2 othersMeltama, and New Kiwis
Horatius Cocles, The Rouge Christmas State, Meltama, and New Kiwis
Up Calvary’s mountain one dreadful morn
Walked Christ my Savior, weary and worn
Facing for sinners death on the cross
That He might save them from endless loss
Blessed Redeemer, precious Redeemer
Seems now I see Him on Calvary’s tree
Wounded and bleeding, for sinners pleading
Blind and unheeding, dying for me
“Father, forgive them,” my Savior prayed
Even while His lifeblood flowed fast away
Praying for sinners while in such woe
No one but Jesus ever loved so
Blessed Redeemer, precious Redeemer
Seems now I see Him on Calvary’s tree
Wounded and bleeding, for sinners pleading
Blind and unheeding, dying for me
Dying for me
Oh how I love Him, Savior and friend
How can my praises ever find end
Through years unnumbered on Heaven’s shore
My songs shall praise Him forevermore
Blessed Redeemer, precious Redeemer
Seems now I see Him on Calvary’s tree
Wounded and bleeding, for sinners pleading
Blind and unheeding, dying for me
"Blessed Redeemer"
May we all realize the extent and brutality of the suffering Jesus willingly endured for our sake.
The Gallant Old Republic, Horatius Cocles, Michigain, Failesian empire, and 2 othersMeltama, and New Kiwis
I'm happy to say that I got a very satisfyingly even number of 20th.
I think it's going to be quite interesting to see RCS's reaction to being number one.
Horatius Cocles, The Rouge Christmas State, and Meltama
Between Maundy and Good Friday I have now attended over 4hrs of church and it still isn't Easter yet! Crowds were literally out the door.
Also continued the tradition of making Hot Cross buns today.
Horatius Cocles, Meltama, and New Kiwis
Sin, where are your shackles?
Death, where is your sting?
Hell has been defeated!
The grave could not hold the King!
The King!
The tomb is empty!
Jesus lives forevermore!
The stone's been rolled away!
There is life beyond death's door!
He has risen like He promised!
Let the victory chorus swell!
The tomb is empty!
And Jesus is alive and well!
Jesus is alive!
- "Resurrection Medley"
There in the ground His body lay
Light of the world by darkness slain
Then bursting forth in glorious day
Up from the grave He rose again!
And as He stands in victory
Sin's curse has lost its grip on me!
For I am His, and He is mine
Bought with the precious blood of Christ!
Then came the morning that sealed the promise
Your buried body began to breathe
Out of the silence the Roaring Lion
Declared the grave has no claim on me
Then came the morning that sealed the promise
Your buried body began to breathe!
Out of the silence the Roaring Lion
Declared the grave has no claim on me!
Jesus, Yours is the victory!
Hallelujah, praise the One who set me free!
Hallelujah, death has lost its grip on me!
You have broken every chain!
There's salvation in Your Name!
Jesus Christ, my living hope!
Death could not hold You!
The veil tore before You!
You silenced the boasts of sin and grave!
The heavens are roaring the praise of Your glory!
For You are raised to life again!
You have no rival!
You have no equal!
Now and forever God You reign!
Yours is the Kingdom!
Yours is the glory!
Yours is the Name above all names!
What a powerful Name it is!
What a powerful Name it is!
The Name of Jesus Christ my King!
What a powerful Name it is!
Nothing can stand against!
What a powerful Name it is!
The Name of Jesus!
The ground began to shake
The stone was rolled away
His perfect love could not be overcome
Now death where is your sting?
Our resurrected King
Has rendered you defeated!
Forever He is glorified!
Forever He is lifted high!
Forever He is risen!
He is alive!
He is alive!
Come behold the wondrous mystery
Slain by death the God of life
But no grave could e'er restrain Him
Praise the Lord, He is alive!
What a foretaste of deliverance
How unwavering our hope
Christ in power resurrected
As we will be when He comes!
Our Savior displayed on a criminal's cross
Darkness rejoiced as though heaven had lost
But then Jesus arose with our freedom in hand!
That's when death was arrested and my life began!
That's when death was arrested and my life began!
O Your grace so free washes over me
You have made me new now life begins with You!
It's Your endless love pouring down on us!
You have made me new now life begins with You!
Then on the third at break of dawn
The Son of Heaven rose again
O trampled death, where is your sting?
The angels roar for Christ the King!
O praise the Name of the Lord our God!
O praise His Name forevermore!
For endless days we will sing Your praise!
O Lord, O Lord our God!
See, the stone is rolled away
Behold the empty tomb
Hallelujah, God be praised!
He's risen from the grave!
Oh that rugged cross, my salvation
Where Your blood poured out over me!
Now my soul cries out hallelujah!
Praise and honor unto Thee!
Oh death! Where is your sting?
Oh hell! Where is your victory?
Oh Church! Come stand in the light!
The glory of God has defeated the night!
Oh death! Where is your sting?
Oh hell! Where is your victory?
Oh Church! Come stand in the light!
Our God is not dead, He's alive! He's alive!
Christ is risen from the dead
Trampling over death by death
Come awake, come awake!
Come and rise up from the grave!
Christ is risen from the dead
We are one with Him again
Come awake, come awake!
Come and rise up from the grave!
One day the grave could conceal Him no longer
One day the stone rolled away from the door
Then He arose, over death He had conquered
Now He's ascended, my Lord evermore
Death could not hold Him, the grave could not keep Him
From rising again!
Horatius Cocles, The Rouge Christmas State, Roborian, Meltama, and 1 otherNew Kiwis
Happy Easter everyone!!! May the hope, peace & love of this season give you the strength, humility and courage for the next...
‘Praise be to the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ! In his great mercy he has given us new birth into a LIVING HOPE through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead’ (1Peter 1:3)
Horatius Cocles, Phydios, The Rouge Christmas State, Roborian, and 4 othersMichigain, American antartica, Meltama, and New Kiwis
I sure don't know how that happened.
I wouldn't even want to stay in my country. XD
The Gallant Old Republic, Meltama, and New Kiwis
Every seat in the church was full today for the first time since the pandemic started. Praise the Lord, He is Risen!
The Gallant Old Republic, Horatius Cocles, Phydios, Michigain, and 3 othersAmerican antartica, Meltama, and New Kiwis
The Church I go to had to add an extra Mass just to make sure everyone who registered could attend.
The Gallant Old Republic, Horatius Cocles, Roborian, Michigain, and 2 othersMeltama, and New Kiwis
Hello everyone! I’ve returned from my time of mourning and wish you all a belated Happy Easter! If any of you would like to see what an Eastern Catholic Easter liturgy looks like (in English), here’s a link: https://www.facebook.com/ssjoachimandanna/videos/924594708365471/
On a separate note, since I’m not an evangelical believer, I’d appreciate some input from those who are on this article: https://www.nytimes.com/2021/04/05/us/covid-vaccine-evangelicals.amp.html
The Gallant Old Republic, The Rouge Christmas State, Roborian, Michigain, and 2 othersMeltama, and New Kiwis
Happy Easter season all!
Horatius Cocles, The Rouge Christmas State, American antartica, Meltama, and 1 otherNew Kiwis
This does not surprise me at all. Some people are just misinformed. My mother was intially certain that the J&J vaccine contained material from newly aborted babies, but was quite receptive to hearing that she was wrong. But generally, there are some larger problems.
As I see it, the first problem is a tendency to make decisions based on political beliefs, rather than God's Word. The Bible is relevant at all times and in all situations, but it seems that many Christians are looking to their favorite politician or news outlet to tell them how to respond to the social and cultural issues of the day.
The second problem is a distrust of science, probably stemming from the mainstream promotion of macroevolution. I think the "religion vs science" war is being waged from both sides- how many Christians reject macroevolution but couldn't tell you why? There is a serious deficiency of apologetics in the Church, and that includes the ability to identify proper and improper uses of the scientific method. Science is not against religion- scientism and naturalism are. So these people look to their pastor (assuming that they attend a church) for answers, since they don't trust the scientists on anything. But even if the pastor knows better, he may be worried about offending his congregation if he speaks out. He may split the church in two, or get thrown out himself. The downside of being able to split from a church whose teaching runs against Scripture is the ability to split from a church whose teaching doesn't align with every micron of your personal beliefs.
The third problem is that Christians can be just as bad at fact-checking and critical thinking as non-Christians. We seek out people who tell us what we want to hear, and we believe everything that comes out of their mouths- on any topic. That produces people who call themselves Christians but claim that "Easter" is the name of a pagan goddess (and anyone who observes Easter worships that goddess), that <insert technology here> is the Mark of the Beast, or that defying vaccination and/or COVID-19 regulations puts them in the same camp as those Biblical characters who were threatened with death for refusing to worship false gods. Satan's most effective work is done within the Church.
In summary, you've got people who claim to be Christians, and may actually believe that the Bible supports or commands their actions, but aren't actually seeking wisdom or instruction from God- because Satan's lies, in one of their many forms, tell them that they already have it.
New Dolgaria, Aawia, The Gallant Old Republic, Horatius Cocles, and 3 othersThe Rouge Christmas State, Meltama, and New Kiwis
I would add that "politics" can be a bit too simple in the sense that many people's gut reaction is to distrust big government/big business (hudge and grudge) about everything, and that certainly includes health issues in general. No one really has to tell lots of people what to believe (i.e. a politician), they already think this way.
I for one totally get this, even if many are quick to denigrate people like this. For so many reasons these institutions do not deserve our trust and do regularly lie, mislead, manipulate. I used to think like this to some degree, though I think my skepticism has matured and I have a better grasp of how much credence to give information etc., I have never been a conspiracy theorist on really any level however.
I will also say, though, that sometimes I think what we might call "crazy conservatives" are actually being more or less just as honest as "liberals" who are convinced they have all the right answers and are enlightened. Why? Based on my interactions, a lot of what we might think of as typical young liberal collegish age types do not think anything is true, they think everything is a political power message, religion and politics are all just lies (noble or ignoble), reality isn't real, everything is ideology and gender. Then they turn around and start preaching about vaccines, Trump voters, Republicans, Christians, whatever and how they have no faith in science, preach and live lies, and are idiots. The problem is they think (or at least believe) that there is no objective, there is no real. So why do they go on pretending that they are right and ____ is imbecilic for being wrong?
Why is it that postmodernists most despise those who best embody the living out of the consequences of their beliefs? All I can say is that they definitely deserve all the Trumpism and anti-vaxers for their just-desserts.
I'm actually legitimately impressed at that article. It gives a detailed and largely accurate look at people's opinions on both sides of a matter without giving undue weight to one over the other or showing significant favoritism. It's, well, actual journalism, and it's surprising how surprising it is to see it from the Times. Credit where credit is due, I think they did a good job of giving an overview of different Evangelical reasons for opposition (and support) of vaccination.
I don't think there is just one reason, and I do not want to sort of copy-paste my own opinions onto Evangelicals writ large, but I do think that one big reason behind this is distrust of science, but I think not as much from long-term stuff like the evolution debate, and with more weight towards the state of 'Science!' today as a brand and rhetorical cudgel. If you were someone who saw the massive riots and protests this summer and then saw medical 'experts' defend them despite the COVID risk, while you yourself were denied from church, then you're not going to be too inclined to believe that those people are neutral intellectuals with your best interests at heart. If you have paid even a passing amount of attention in the news to the activists declaring that men can become women and vice-versa, biological men should be able to play in women's sports, children should be given hormones, etc., and heard that scientific opposition to that is 'hate speech', then you may not be inclined to trust the 'Science!' that is seen as being on that 'side' of things culturally. Science is now largely framed as a left-wing buzzword, and not even for lack of conservative efforts to reclaim it, but for the media coverage reinforcing that angle. Conservatives who cite science against, say, transgender issues are either ignored or actively removed from booksellers, the last March for Life had the word-for-word theme of "Pro-Life is Pro-Science" and received virtually zero media coverage, you cannot get the message out with the microphone cord cut. The left wing and the media of America have both been going all-in on the idea that their party and their party alone is the party of Science, and now we are seeing the effects of trying to make the neutral process of the scientific method into a political football.
Basically it comes down to what amounts to a legitimate distrust-but one that is only as strong as it is because it feeds into a political/cultural fight, without the politics of this, it would not be as strong. The thought that "The scientific experts saying this is safe also say that men can get pregnant and liberal protests don't spread COVID, I'm not sure they have a track record for objectivity" can be held by anyone, but it becomes dramatically stronger when it is folded into "The same people telling me to get the vaccine are the same people who say I'm a knuckle-dragging bigot who is racist and wants to control women's bodies, so why should I listen to them?"
And that, I think, is the biggest (but not the only) reason, concerns about objectivity enhanced by ideological disagreement and then magnified immensely by the political-culture war. It would be like if Trump hotels hired ExxonMobil scientists to make a vaccine that had cell lines back from the Tuskegee experiment, and the promotion of it was Ben Shapiro saying 'Facts don't care about your Feelings, get the vaccine.' Were that the case, I'd best hard money that a whole lot of Evangelicals (not all, but quite a few) who say they are opposing on moral or scientific grounds would line up to get the vaccine, and a whole lot of liberals would be the ones refusing (heck, Kamala Harris refused on-stage just because of Trump's being in office.) A small number of people will actually look at the science directly, but for most people trust is based off of the people they trust, and if something is being promoted primarily by those they actively distrust, and moreso, people who they believe hate them, then trust is going to be determined, in large part, by cultural 'tribe.'
I think the three other largest reasons are (the article seems to do a fair job on this) 1: People who have seen COVID restrictions shut down and in many cases deliberately target their churches, and thus see this as a spiritual fight against people who are actively trying to suppress religion and worship, so one should not bow to Nebuchannezzar's dictates, 2: People with direct spiritual objections, Pentecostal types, 'God will take me when he takes me' types, etc. (I think that some are using these lines as cover for other reasons, but I think there are people who legitimately hold them), and finally 3: Just general distrust separate from religion or culture. I think that this is probably underestimated, but it is interesting to see that per the Pew study the second-largest group of people refusing the vaccine are actually the religious unaffiliated. There are a variety of reasons for generalized distrust, but there are many for whom 'Evangelical' is a cultural marker, who don't attend worship regularly but take the label because they went to Sunday School as a kid, and they don't want to get a vaccine for similar reasons that 36% of nonreligious unaffiliated people do not.
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So to summarize it if you do not want to read all of that: Trust tends to be based more off of the people you trust, and distrust, than the actual thing in question, and thus the framing and the messenger are of outsized importance. If the messengers are the same people who disproportionately-Republican Evangelicals distrust on other issues from taxation to gun control to healthcare to abortion, then they're less likely to trust them on vaccination, and when the message is "Trust the science on vaccinations just like you should trust the 'Science!' on men getting pregnant', then trust in the vaccine suffers greatly by association, and I think that, while not the sole reason, is the largest one.
I am all but certain that if the announcement of the vaccine being created was not held back until after the election and/or if Trump won based off of touting said vaccine that the number of Evangelicals opposing it would plummet (not go away, there are other reasons, but plummet) and the number of atheists and other groups opposing it would skyrocket.
I suppose that I should mention, in relation to the vaccine, that I am currently not planning on getting it, not so much out of a complete or fundamental distrust, but just a cost/benefit analysis. I am not entirely certain where I ultimately fall in relation to the question of what to do with fetal cell-derived (though not containing) vaccines, I do not think my concerns are firm enough to make a decision based off of them, just to shift a little weight in one direction. More than that is just the question of practicality in that, beyond being in a low-risk group, best available evidence seems to suggest that having already had COVID is relatively equivalent to vaccination for quite some time, and with that in mind, I do not feel a need to roll the dice on uncertain long-term side-effects (though I believe the odds of such are slim) and/or wade into mildly murky moral territory.
It is about cost-benefit rather than a 'the vaccine is poison' or 'the vaccine is immoral' sort of thing, so if circumstances change I'm open to changing my mind, something like a new more lethal strain or the like, but as things stand getting vaccinated looks unlikely to have anything more than a marginal effect, and with that in mind I tend towards the risk-averse side of things.
I built my first 3 megatons nuke
my target is benjing china and launching my nuke on april 10
I understand where you're coming from, but what about other people? For me, getting a vaccine that has been tested and shown to be generally safe (like all other medicine) is how I love my neighbor. Unless you are never in close contact with anyone, there is always the chance that you could be an asymptomatic transmitter.
Plus, what happens when private businesses start requiring vaccination? There is no national vaccine mandate in the US, and I don't expect one. But concert halls, sports arenas, movie theaters, airlines, etc, may well require proof of vaccination before entry. I know that the Norwegian cruise line is definitely planning to require them. And I don't know if any entity will consider an antibody test as an acceptable substitute for vaccination. Until we reach some level of herd immunity, the pandemic will continue, and the pandemic regulations will probably also continue.
From what I have seen, and I am open to being corrected on this, as I am sure there is a ton of data out there that I am not aware of, the difference in safety between someone who has gotten COVID and someone who has gotten the vaccine is marginal. If that gap was much larger, I would be open to reconsidering, but if the vaccine offers little to no additional protection, then I would err on the side of caution given that we (for obvious reasons) are uncertain of its long-term safety (though I think it very likely that there will not be any major issues).
I suppose I should also note that I am generally extremely risk-averse when it comes to medicine/drugs in general, all the way down to not taking aspirin or allergy pills if I can help it, not consuming alcohol or even caffeine, so it is more of a general trend rather than specifically distrusting the vaccine, I trust it on a roughly similar level to most other medicine.
Ironically enough, those sorts of requirements, which I do not think will happen on a large scale, but I would not be surprised if they were, actually make me a lot less likely to want to get the vaccine. You can be generous and call it principle, or be probably more accurate and call it knee-jerk spite for overbearing authority, but my instinctive reaction to something like vaccine 'freedom passes' is much less "Fine, then I'll get one", and much more "Screw you!", the sort of thing that would (even admitting that this is not really a healthy emotional reaction) make me want to not get the vaccine at all just to put a finger in the eye of those who would, often hypocritically, crack down on freedoms. It really is an inner teenager sort of thing, which is almost ironic, I was more at peace with overreach of authority when I was an actual teenager.
I do have a general advantage, though in that I don't really make frequent use of any of those things, I occasionally go to movies maybe once or twice a year but never have been to a concert, have only been to one sports game in my adult life even though I enjoy them (less so now that they could not keep their necks out of patronizing politics), and I very rarely travel and thus rarely fly. I would very much enjoy taking in a ballgame or a film, but if I get authoritarian regulations forced as a precondition to that, then I am more likely to be stubborn and refuse to engage entirely rather than buckling under. (That's already the largest reason outside of being stingy that I do not attend more sporting events, I cannot stand all the metal detectors and bag checks and nonsense, all the moreso if invasive paperwork-checking is added onto that.)
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