KelraBoard

Tyra Melin wrote:

Hey guys-does anybody feel the role play rules are a little bit too strict? Please guys, be honest. I don’t know if it’s me or others, but sometimes I feel like all the rules take the fun out of it.

The first message in this chain of events, Tyra is asking a genuine question and expressing their feelings, at this point everything is fine.

Responses unrelated to the further argument

Lethinia wrote:

idk
i feel like the spam rule should be expanded to 3 instead of 2 but eh, atleast its not the worst

Lethinia states that the RMB post amount should be increased to 3, but that it's not that bad. An honest opinion.
Zaka responds with:

Zakaruba wrote:

Consider yourselves lucky; some regions don't even allow two. There is absolutely no reason to post three times in a row. There is an edit button for a reason - use it.

"Consider yourselves lucky"?? The way Zaka phrased this is unacceptable, this is not an appropriate response. It's phrased as if no one else in the region matters besides Zaka. There are so many more ways to politely phrase "There's not much reason for people to be posting three times in a row, the edit button still allows people to say as much as they want if there's enough time to make that many posts."

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DAIRYC wrote:

I think I am content, unless any would put forth valid criticisms.

Dairyc finds no problems, but seems to imply that other voiced criticisms are invalid or that people might voice invalid ones.

Zakaruba wrote:

Roleplay rules are only made to prevent abuse and to ensure things stay realistic. Of the few rules we have, I can hardly see how they are too restrictive. Unless you provide some specifics, this complaint will go absolutely nowhere.

Zaka answers, no wrongs have been done. The demand to provide specifics could have been phrased better and less like an ultimatum, but it's fine and heads towards a good place to go, "what rules are upsetting you?" when you have the answer to this question the problem can be addressed and solved and everyone is satisfied.

Tyra Melin wrote:

Zakaruba The restrictions are ridiculous. The military parameters, the small sizes for map claims, and the threat to remove us from the map at any point are depriving us of our creativity. Many people are mad, and I know it isn't just me. This whole roleplay thing about it being "realistic" feels restricting. I understand that you want order and all, however it feels almost totalitarian. Unless the rules are modified to accommodate everybody, including realistic and nonrealistic roleplay, I am leaving. Anybody who wants to join me can.

Tyra answers giving genuine complaints. Military Parameters, small sizes for map claims, and threats to remove people from the map are the complaints given. Tyra then declares they are leaving.

Zakaruba wrote:

Our rules are based off real world statistics and data. If you don't like the rules, then you probably aren't into realism. If you aren't into realism, then this isn't the RP for you.

These new rules are being made to weed out low effort and inactive nations. I would rather have a few good nations than many poor ones who constantly attempt godmod. These new rules are not changing and if you don't like them, I suggest you find another RP.

I want a good, respectable roleplay for this region. Not magic space trains with 0 explanation and armies of 20 million for a nation of 40 million.

Zaka answers with what can be summarized as "This is realistic, if you don't like it you can f*ck off"
Zaka does however provide reason as to why things are how they are, the two examples of unrealism are certainly things that might happen and don't fit into a realistic RP.

A better way to respond to this would be to cut out the "if you don't like it you can leave" and to give a better explanation as to how the rules work to achieve their goal, "to weed out low and inactive nations" is rather vague. A better way to explain military stats would be "Military statistics are there to prevent a major source of godmodding where two or more nations will try and have the strongest military, leading to unrealistic numbers." because it clearly identifies the problem the rules address and gives a better understanding of what that problem is and how the rules prevent it, giving more legitimacy to the rules.

In my experience small initial plot sizes is quite common among RPs where you can expand, this is something that people might have not likely thought of or known, but it's a useful reference for future statements on why the rules are like they are.

As for responding to Tyra's complaint of threatening to kick people from the map, the best course of action is to apologize because this is tantamount to threatening to ban someone with the effective results. Removing people from the map has simple and clear situations (a lack of activity, etc), so threatening to remove someone can feel like those simple boundaries are being stretched. However this complaint of Tyra's wasn't addressed here, it's not bad that it wasn't addressed here (given how Zaka was responding at this time it likely would have inflamed Tyra further), but in a more polite setting it would have been helpful to clearing disagreement and anger.

Tyra Melin wrote:

It’s a nice-looking picture you fascist. I remember the good ol’ days when you didn’t care. “Won’t tolerate it anymore.” We won’t tolerate you and your fascist role play laws. Suppressing an innocent post just hurts the person’s feelings. You should be ashamed of yourself. You are becoming a Kelran dictator, and I KNOW that is NOT how this region was originally run.

Tyra Melin calls Zaka a fascist. This statement is unacceptable, regardless of anything else. Zaka did not and does not deserve to be called a fascist, calling anybody a fascist as a way to attack them is wrong.

Zakaruba wrote:

You obviously have no intentions of engaging with this region in a civilized and mature manner. With the changes coming, there will be no place for people like you here. Your rhetoric lately has been disgusting and unfounded.

You are no longer welcome in Kelra.

Zaka responds saying Tyra is no longer welcome in Kelra and bans them. At this point Zaka should have gotten someone else to mediate and deliver punishment as needed. By simply naming a verdict and executing it, it gives the view that Zaka is an oppressive autocrat. The punishment I would have given would be a temporary kick or far more preferably an RMB ban for Tyra to calm down, after which things can be attempted to be discussed civilly. If another RO had delivered verdict of punishment it would have helped avoid inflaming Tyra further as it makes it clear that whatever punishment is made is agreed upon between multiple parties and is fair. When an affected party in a disagreement is also the one deciding upon and delivering punishment it feels a lot more like an abuse of power, and is more likely to be an abuse of power as emotions are in the mix.

Further responses on the events by other nations of Kelra, they are civil responses and simply state people's honest and reasonable opinion. Not much to say about them as nothing really occurred in these posts

Plajevo wrote:

That is a vulgar thing to say. Just because people are giving you a hard time does not mean that you should ban them based on their principles. I am ashamed of what this region has come to be. It has been a fun experience, but lately it is getting out of hand with the amount of restrictions, rules, and regulations based in RP(which should be up to the nation posting). Zakaruba, I believe that this is a sign pointing to how the future of Kelra will play out. This is not how NS is supposed to work, and it may even be your Achilles Heel. All we are asking is to make Kelra a more open and friendly place, but at the rate we are going it is more like a back pedal. Please continue to improve our region rather than let it fall into shambles. Thank you and may Kelra see hope.

Sierra Grand wrote:

Not going to comment on legality of dismissal, but TM did literally call Zak a "fascist". That's not something that sends a welcoming/open/friendly message to nations looking at our RMB.

Plajevo wrote:

You are too harsh in imposing rules and that is why so many nations are sick of your agenda. I am not trying to cause too much trouble, but I am stating my beliefs and what I have been seeing. If you find that indecent, that is your decision to make. Please just know that I want Kelra to be a better a place free of all of this mayhem and constant reminders of stuff that is not even that big of a deal. I love you all very much and Kelra has been fun, but I am moving on. I am leaving for another region. Thank you for providing me with my first experience on NationStates.

After Zaka's ban of Tyra, they attempted to move their puppets Elshiani and Quirhoshe into Kelra, evading Zaka's ban. This is why, after discussion between ROs, Tyra's ban is being upheld after the events.