The DankLeft CommuneBoard

Super friendly land wrote:

I have Easter egg #3!

Nice! I only got 2, but I suppose I could get more if I hunted them

Ooh, I see some sprouts in our leftist garden.

Heyo

Hi, I just joined

Marxist-Leninism with Bidenist Characteristics will definitely be implemented.

Hello

I got madness!

Super friendly land wrote:

The NS issue, I mean. I haven’t gone insane.

I got that on one of my puppets right now

Hey there comrades :)

This post is really important, so please read me!

(Written by me in NSG, edited and posted in another region's forum, and finally posted here)

My thoughts on policing:

Thus far, most of my arguments have been on why I see police as faulty due to their identity as a servant of the state, and not as much regarding what occurs to ensure the reduction of crime in our post-police setting. One reason is I feel some other posters here, particularly Ifreann and Cordel, are far better at pushing their claims there. Your post regarding many people's worries on certain problems- in particular, "what do we do with crime and social stratification?" after police cease to exist- does however remind me to write about my own opinion on how to prevent those issue- ie, the progression of events before police as they exist now join feudalism and slavery in their rightful place: history books - as well as clear up misconceptions.

Some people seem to believe I wish to see police done away with instantaneously, having police at sunset and the entire institution abandoned by sunrise, with the prisons cleared and officers having found employment elsewhere. That is not so. As I've mentioned since my OP, I see the eventual abolition of police as a process lasting many years as opposed to an instantaneous change. There will be some periods when this process speeds up: initial reforms that shift away policing budgets, and the very end when police are abolished as a system. There will be some periods when this process slows down: when welfare is completing its work through education and prevention programmes to lower and deter crime, when minor offenses become legalised, when prisoners are rehabilitated so they are ready to make a return to society and prisons are no longer needed. But overall, there is a step-by-step movement towards our final goal. Much like the dessert chef understands we cannot make tiramisu before acquiring ladyfingers; we police abolishment advocates understand police cannot be abolished before prisoners are released, that prisoners cannot be released before they are rehabilitated, etc.

Now, what happens to "crime" throughout this process? Many argue that police prevent crime. Some note that crime may exist following our abolishing of police. Those are natural and entirely understandable concerns. Many people argue that without police we will have crime, but I urge them to ask themselves: why does crime still exist at such high rates even after police have existed for so long? Indeed, the claim that "police help prevent crime" or "police solve crime" has been debunked time and again, particularly by Kowani's excellent post, which I encourage everyone to read if they haven't yet. As for the second claim, that crime may still exist in our new society, we acknowledge such an argument. However, we believe it will be at low enough rates so that an alternative to policing is entirely feasible. I offer some ideas of how to reach that goal below:

As mentioned, our idea is gradually decreasing crime to extremely low levels throughout with continued improvement. Evidence tends to suggest that crime tends to decrease with increased education, which is one of our proposals- to shift budgets away from police and towards education. Similarly, our proposed increase in welfarehas been effective thus far in preventing all sorts of criminal offenses, and an increase would again be greatly effective by improving people's lives and genuinely decreasing incentives for crime (not to mention morally correct). Combined with mental health treatment to assist those at
elevated risk of violent activity especially since 40% of people in certain prisons are with psychiatric issues, lesser rules on drugs, helping nonviolent offenders, and other policies, the overall crime rate should be lowered even further. In time, police may be replaced entirely with unarmed intervention teams, further deterring crime with increased emphasis on community responsibility, and lower level volunteer forces.

Abolishing police will not be easy, but I do believe that with time it can be accomplished and bring us into a new and better society freed from policing by servants of capital and the state.

(Thanks to Alcala-Cordel for offering me some grammatical and style edits, and to Kowani for providing many useful sources.)

Useful links and further readings:

On the absurdly low efficacy of police and their failure to solve basic crimes-
Summary: Police are really bad at solving crimes, with anywhere from 80-90% of petty and property crimes going unresolved, and even a large proportion of violent crimes such as rape and murder not solved years later.

https://www.npr.org/sections/codeswitch/2020/06/03/457251670/how-much-do-we-need-the-police
https://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=3566383

On the role of police and myth of "crime prevention"-
Summary: Police don't actually prevent violent crime as much as people think they do. Even with their massively increased budgets, overly weaponised equipment, and practical immunity to lawsuits, they don't spend much time actually stopping crime.

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/06/19/upshot/unrest-police-time-violent-crime.html
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2020-06-04/america-s-policing-budget-has-nearly-tripled-to-115-billion
https://www.aclu.org/sites/default/files/field_document/jus14-warcomeshome-text-rel1.pdf

On civil asset forfeiture and theft by police forces-
Summary: Police in the United States have "civil asset forfeiture" power. You may know it better as theft. Not only are they not obligated to give you a reason for seizing property if they deem it "suspicious" or "likely to be part of a crime", they don't even have to return your property after you're proved innocent. In fact, police seize more in "civil asset forfeiture" each year than all minor property criminals combined. (Though still less than large corporation's wage theft...)

https://www.pnas.org/content/115/37/9181
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/06/19/upshot/unrest-police-time-violent-crime.html

On illegal actions by police and covering up of incidents as well as systematic abuses-
Summary: Not only are 40% of police confirmed domestic abusers, they also downplay their crimes on the job as well. It's ridiculously difficult to terminate a policeperson's contract, and even if they are removed from their position they are often hired by another city's department without regard for their past offenses.

https://www.law.nyu.edu/sites/default/files/upload_documents/YOU_policing.pdf
https://www.nytimes.com/2016/09/11/us/whereabouts-of-cast-out-police-officers-other-cities-often-hire-them.html

On police and mistreatment of oppressed groups-
Summary: Police universally mistreat minority persons during traffic stops and arrests. They are more likely to abuse minority persons, attack them physically or verbally, and stop them for minor crimes or offenses. They are also more hesitant to help minority people.

https://www.aclu.org/blog/criminal-law-reform/reforming-police-practices/new-data-reveals-milwaukee-police-stops-are
https://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=3202470
https://www.pnas.org/content/pnas/early/2017/05/30/1702413114.full.pdf

On creating a future without police-
Summary: Police, despite what we commonly hear about them, are certainly not the line between "chaos" and "law". There are alternatives available, many of which have enviable track records of success.

https://www.futurelearn.com/info/courses/economics-of-crime/0/steps/20289

On reducing crime rates through education and welfare-
Summary: Better education, better healthcare, and better income have been shown to not only noticeably lower crime, but also lead to better outcomes for individuals, their households, and communities at large.

https://voxeu.org/article/why-education-reduces-crime
https://www.brookings.edu/blog/up-front/2018/01/03/new-evidence-that-access-to-health-care-reduces-crime/
https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10.1080/07418829800093741
url=https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0047235220300623

On improving mental health to prevent crime-
Summary: Improving access to mental healthcare not only prevents crime, but also stops repeats of incidents where police shoot unarmed mentally ill persons. Furthermore, a sizeable minority of people in prisons in the US are mentally ill and suffer from at least one DSMV disorder. Giving them the treatment and help they need can empty prisons and lower the recidivism rate.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3160235/
https://gothamist.com/news/bronx-protesters-demand-justice-for-death-of-mentally-ill-rikers-inmate

Note: I acknowledge that many of my sources are American or Western centered, but many of those same arguments can still apply to developing and lesser developed nations.

Alcala-Cordel wrote:

I wish you could pin a comment to the RMB, this definitely deserves it.

You could put it in the wfe, but that would be way too long

I'll do that once I get better data, camping rn and I'm 30 feet up a tree to get a signal

I got another Easter egg!