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Darths and Droids wrote:"let's remember that one other time the Democrats chose someone that did not work out for them and helped to defeat them".

Oh if only they did that just once before. Shame about President Gore.

Mozworld wrote:Oh if only they did that just once before. Shame about President Gore.

I was too young to remember him, or pretty much anything pre-Obama.

Yeah that's the problem really. A new batch of voters come along who weren't around to learn from the previous generation's mistakes so end up making the same mistakes again. Hopefully we've got another decade or so before we have to suffer through that again.

Fortunately, through the power of Internet, those "lost years" can be rediscovered and learned from; and, make no mistake, for better or worse this decade will be remembered for quite some time.

Ruinenlust wrote:~snip~

Also, just a note about Harris' Senate voting record: she's the fourth or fifth most liberal senator. For those who want her to be Bernie Sanders, there is plenty to contrast, but for anyone on the Republican or conservative-leaning independent side, she's so far to the left that she fell off the stage. The idea that Harris is a "moderate" is not quite accurate, based on her voting record, unless everyone to the right of Warren and Bernie is moderate-to-conservative by default.
~snip~

I believe that this individual was a European making the assumption that the US is a far-right country (disturbingly not too far from the truth), so Biden is too liberal and Harris is "far-left."

Mozworld wrote:Yeah that's the problem really. A new batch of voters come along who weren't around to learn from the previous generation's mistakes so end up making the same mistakes again. Hopefully we've got another decade or so before we have to suffer through that again.

Bush II was wonderful compared to Trump. As an avid anti-war advocate during his administration, I never thought that I would take the position that he was preferable to any subsequent president. Then president Camacho Trump appeared...

Darths and Droids wrote:Let's rewind to 2016.

Some nations and regions got deleted for using an illegal script.

Octopus islands

I absolutely agree that Trump has been one of the least qualified and worst overall presidents in decades, but some of y'all seem to be exaggerating a bit much. Sure, Trump has done horrible things, but America is still far from some dystopian hellhole 3rd world dictatorship. Outside of COVID it hasn't changed much for 99% of Americans. I know for sure that my life hasn't changed since Obama left. I mean, pretending that 2016-19 was the worst time for America ever is a bit much. Was 9/11 that long ago? Does no one remember? Or looking even further back, was the Cold War really a safer and less scary time then now? I would have to disagree.

Normally, if this wasn't politics, I wouldn't really care. But when (only some, a vocal minority) leftists act like Trump is the reincarnation of Stalin and Hitler combined, it just scares off moderates and plays perfectly into the narrative of the Trump supporters who continue to play the "Radical Left" card. It just makes us look like crazies that run on emotion only, and that's exactly what the right has been saying. They even have a term for it: Trump Derangement Syndrome.

At the end of the day, this is a republic. We can argue about the electoral college all we want, but it's still generally the will of the people. America got us into this fix, and we will get ourselves out in 0.5-4 years. Remember not to fret over things constantly when they are out of your control, it's very dangerous for your mental health.

Octopus islands wrote:At the end of the day, this is a republic. We can argue about the electoral college all we want, but it's still generally the will of the people. America got us into this fix, and we will get ourselves out in 0.5-4 years. Remember not to fret over things constantly when they are out of your control, it's very dangerous for your mental health.

Some people will disagree but I think the current election should revolve around the life expectancy of Ruth Bader Ginsburg. Yes another 4 years of Trump wouldn't be good, but since he's so inept at his job any damage he could do, as you say, could only last the length of his presidency. But the supreme court has life terms, so anyone appointed there could have major impacts.

Darths and Droids wrote:Fortunately, through the power of Internet, those "lost years" can be rediscovered and learned from; and, make no mistake, for better or worse this decade will be remembered for quite some time.

That's what was said the last time. The 2000 election was dominated by voting problems (the hanging chads in Florida) and Ralph Nader's spoiler effect. By 2016 people had either forgotten or were too young, so were more than happy to cast their vote for Jill Stein to send a message to Hillary. As for the voting problems, last time and this time they are still present but just different ones.
I'd like to think that in the 2032 election things might be different, but noone will remember Jill Stein, just as they don't remember Ralph Nader.

Outer Bele Levy Epies wrote:Some nations and regions got deleted for using an illegal script.

And my main first joined NS.

Octopus islands wrote:Normally, if this wasn't politics, I wouldn't really care. But when (only some, a vocal minority) leftists act like Trump is the reincarnation of Stalin and Hitler combined, it just scares off moderates and plays perfectly into the narrative of the Trump supporters who continue to play the "Radical Left" card. It just makes us look like crazies that run on emotion only, and that's exactly what the right has been saying. They even have a term for it: Trump Derangement Syndrome.

As a denizen of Quora, I see this daily. Daily. Any writer not left of center is constantly answering questions related in some way to TDS, including writers (even left-of-center ones) who have to add disclaimers "stop making me defend Trump". It's insane.

Mozworld wrote:That's what was said the last time. The 2000 election was dominated by voting problems (the hanging chads in Florida) and Ralph Nader's spoiler effect. By 2016 people had either forgotten or were too young, so were more than happy to cast their vote for Jill Stein to send a message to Hillary. As for the voting problems, last time and this time they are still present but just different ones.
I'd like to think that in the 2032 election things might be different, but noone will remember Jill Stein, just as they don't remember Ralph Nader.

You make a fair point. I'll defer to that statement. And in ten years or so I'll be saying the same exact things you just said here. :P

Octopus islands wrote:I absolutely agree that Trump has been one of the least qualified and worst overall presidents in decades, but some of y'all seem to be exaggerating a bit much. Sure, Trump has done horrible things, but America is still far from some dystopian hellhole 3rd world dictatorship. Outside of COVID it hasn't changed much for 99% of Americans. I know for sure that my life hasn't changed since Obama left. I mean, pretending that 2016-19 was the worst time for America ever is a bit much. Was 9/11 that long ago? Does no one remember? Or looking even further back, was the Cold War really a safer and less scary time then now? I would have to disagree.

Normally, if this wasn't politics, I wouldn't really care. But when (only some, a vocal minority) leftists act like Trump is the reincarnation of Stalin and Hitler combined, it just scares off moderates and plays perfectly into the narrative of the Trump supporters who continue to play the "Radical Left" card. It just makes us look like crazies that run on emotion only, and that's exactly what the right has been saying. They even have a term for it: Trump Derangement Syndrome.

At the end of the day, this is a republic. We can argue about the electoral college all we want, but it's still generally the will of the people. America got us into this fix, and we will get ourselves out in 0.5-4 years. Remember not to fret over things constantly when they are out of your control, it's very dangerous for your mental health.

SC justices hold seats for life. I am not claimining that Trump compares to some of the most brutal dictators of the twentieth century but I am going to be in torch and pitchfork mode if Trump's dirty play strategies work and we end up with another Kavanaugh on the bench! The attacks on the USPS are just as bad as foreign interference! (The PAEA was a gut stab! They would be so much better off fiscially without that nonsense!) I find it interesting that Russia and China are supporting different candidates given the fact that they both have leaders set up to rule for life. Shouldn't Putin and Xi be on the same page? Perhaps it comes down to kompromat but that is an entirely different discussion.

Turbeaux wrote:Shouldn't Putin and Xi be on the same page? Perhaps it comes down to kompromat but that is an entirely different discussion.

https://www.electoral-vote.com/evp2020/Pres/Maps/Aug10.html#item-3

Nattily dressed anarchists on bicycles

Octopus islands wrote:I absolutely agree that Trump has been one of the least qualified and worst overall presidents in decades, but some of y'all seem to be exaggerating a bit much. Sure, Trump has done horrible things, but America is still far from some dystopian hellhole 3rd world dictatorship..

Yup. Here we're much more subtle, and just rig an election by un/der-funding the postal system so as to undermine mail-by-ballot. It's not like we're rounding people up. Except for refugee children, but still.

America: The Starbucks of Banana Republics (TM)

Octopus islands wrote:But when (only some, a vocal minority) leftists act like Trump is the reincarnation of Stalin and Hitler combined, it just scares off moderates and plays perfectly into the narrative of the Trump supporters who continue to play the "Radical Left" card. It just makes us look like crazies that run on emotion only, and that's exactly what the right has been saying

In their defense, the man himself courted that image. And seemingly continues to do so. He wants folks to see him as a strongman-type autocrat who no one can tell what to do, and answers to no notion of accountability. During the election season, he happily gobbled up endorsements from some despicable far-right places. And he continues to buddy up to such groups. He has steadily broadcast dog whistles and insinuations throughout his presidency in a shameless ploy to curry their favor and bolster his image.

It's not like these people just conjured up out of nowhere this idea that he might have dictatorial intentions for the nation. I don't personally believe he could organize his own wardrobe, let alone some sort of fascist coup, but I am not surprised in the least that others worry he might be leading the country down the path towards totalitarianism.

Atsvea, Lord Dominator, Turbeaux, Outer Bele Levy Epies, and 3 othersCat-herders united, Middle Barael, and The young ur

Mozworld wrote:https://www.electoral-vote.com/evp2020/Pres/Maps/Aug10.html#item-3

I very much enjoy this website; thanks for sharing the link! I have been going through a few days of their daily reports, and I like how comprehensive and businesslike it is. Added to my Bookmarks. :-)

Turbeaux wrote:Shouldn't Putin and Xi be on the same page? Perhaps it comes down to kompromat but that is an entirely different discussion.

If I had to guess, I would say that Xi wants Biden because he is more concerned than anything about consolidating China's position in the world, and to that end, it helps to have a more rational president than Trump, who is not good for building stable, predictable relations. If only because he isn't such a hothead and so unpredictable, Xi would be more interested in Biden than in Trump. I think there's also something in that, traditionally speaking (i.e. the last few decades), the Republican Party at large has been more hawkish on foreign policy. A Republican is probably more likely to challenge some territorial incursion into an ally, whereas the average Democrat president would probably be more dovish on that sort of thing overall.

And no surprises what Putin loves Trump. An impressionable, incurious, incompetent hot mess who plays right into Putin's hands. Someone as weak as Trump in the old enemy's White House is a good time for a 21st century KGB-tsar.

Octopus islands wrote:Normally, if this wasn't politics, I wouldn't really care. But when (only some, a vocal minority) leftists act like Trump is the reincarnation of Stalin and Hitler combined, it just scares off moderates and plays perfectly into the narrative of the Trump supporters who continue to play the "Radical Left" card. It just makes us look like crazies that run on emotion only, and that's exactly what the right has been saying. They even have a term for it: Trump Derangement Syndrome.

In all honesty, I've been kind of put off by the progressive movement. I originally supported Warren and then went for Bernie, but I just didn't like how the movement was circulated around Bernie like some cult of personality going on. I wish the progressive movement would be more about ideas and how to accomplish them rather than revolve around a person.

Rainbowfish ceased to exist another blow for nature and the environment.

lets rewind to 1977, only with arpa net already being public, and nobody voting for raygun.
computers and bell bottoms, long hair and narrow gauge interurban public railways all at the same time.
when nobody openly admitted to not wanting peace and most people actually did.
open all borders and let people build small, wonderfully strange, and far enough apart, without having to jump through hoops or indenture themselves.
or to the population levels of 1830, or even 1460.
well we'll get there after the eco-pocalypse, but i'd rather get there without all the pain and suffering.
and i do stubbornly refuse to stop believing its possible. even if all i can do is make pictures of what i imagine that to be like.

an amiga and a 3d printer in every bed-sit home 'office'.
the future has always been wonderful, we just don't need to keep doing it wrong.

solar powered ultra light railways and build em yourself tiny cabins.
and the village feast is the city hall.

nothing is top down except to protect freedom of movement and resettlement.

deglobalization doesn't need to be about nations retreating into impermiable shells, but culturally dehomoginizing instead.
and fiction about science doesn't need to be distopian either. we just need to pay attention and not assume either way.

i mean, yah, right now, we're starring down the barrel of authoritarian tyranny,
which is the price of having mistaken aggressive inconsiderateness for freedom.
but nothing has to stay that messed up.

the future we could have had, will always be waiting for us when we're ready to pay enough attention to what we do, to make it so.

Mount Seymour wrote:Ooh, good idea! Perhaps we can solicit ideas during the contest, and then add a question asking about themes for the next year into the voting form. I'll have to keep that in mind for November.

I will also try to remember :3

Kraljevstvo rata wrote:Interesting. I have lots of favorite trees, but I'd say my favorite species is the Carya glabra tree, or Pignut Hickory. It's renowned for its flexibility and strength, as well as infamous for its near impossibility of turning on a lathe. Red oak and Alder are other great trees, due to their strength (oak) and abundance (alder)

Eastern red cedar,. They're extremely resilient, growing happily despite poor soil, salt exposure, storms, insects and poor drainage, yet they don't take over because they're so slow growing. Instead they act as a pioneer for recovering forests when other trees get destroyed, or as windbreak to protect them from storms and erosion. Their berries and bark provide food for birds and mammels during the winter and are used to make gin. Their wood is light, strong and flexable, looks and smells wonderful and repels insects.

I really like how people are still responding to my question.

Kraljevstvo rata wrote:I really like how people are still responding to my question.

we like our trees here. :3

Am I the only one who notices that like the same three people like every single message ever lodged on the board, regardless of what it is?

Forgotten Beauty wrote:Am I the only one who notices that like the same three people like every single message ever lodged on the board, regardless of what it is?

I like any post that I find useful or that I agree with, and even some that I disagree with if I can see where they are coming from in the debate.

Middle Barael wrote:I like any post that I find useful or that I agree with, and even some that I disagree with if I can see where they are coming from in the debate.

Yeah makes sense, I was referring to certain individuals who probably know who they are lol

Outer Sparta wrote:In all honesty, I've been kind of put off by the progressive movement. I originally supported Warren and then went for Bernie, but I just didn't like how the movement was circulated around Bernie like some cult of personality going on. I wish the progressive movement would be more about ideas and how to accomplish them rather than revolve around a person.

Well the ideas tend to personalize (is that the right word for it?) to every candidate in some way, so it's pretty much the same thing with everyone eventually. Only difference with Bernie was that he was actually trying to move and change things in a different way, like the walfare kind of, and he said a lot of things people are not usually saying because they are afraid for their political careers. So it was kinda new and fresh in a looong looong time in the US politics on federal level.

Outer Sparta wrote:In all honesty, I've been kind of put off by the progressive movement. I originally supported Warren and then went for Bernie, but I just didn't like how the movement was circulated around Bernie like some cult of personality going on. I wish the progressive movement would be more about ideas and how to accomplish them rather than revolve around a person.

I see no evidence of a cult of personality around Bernie. The slogan of his campaign was literally, "Not Me, Us".

And the movement that backed him continues apace, through the election of congressional candidates who support progressive ideals.

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