Search

Search

[+] Advanced...

Author:

Region:

Sort:

«12. . .229230231232233234235. . .249250»

Oh and, would you mind if I asked you a few questions? These are less 'why do you believe this?' questions and more 'do you believe this?' questions, if that makes sense. As I had said earlier, I am unfortunately ignorant of the specific beliefs of Presbyterianism despite it being the faith of more than 1 million people, so by asking a few questions I would hope to start to 'remedy' that ignorance.

- What are your beliefs on the Divinity of Christ? As a Catholic, we say that 'Christ became Truly man whilst remaining Truly God', is this true of Presbyterianism?

- I know that certain Protestant Churches view the Sacrament of the Eucharist to be merely a remembrance of the events of the Last Supper and nothing more, what are your views on that?

- Lastly, so, does your Church have no hierarchy whatsoever? Or is there some form of hierarchy amongst clergy [if the system of clergy works the same way] but simply not as 'severe' as in Catholicism?

Sorry if these are really basic questions and that is annoying or something, I mean no offense or anything by them but find that the best way to learn about something is to ask someone directly involved in it, like yourself in this case.

Right, thank you once again, I will probably log off for the evening now and will respond to anything else tomorrow. It has truly been a pleasure interacting with you! :)

Alexander the magnus

Dominant Oppressors wrote:

LOL, it is a little convoluted, but I think I have muddled my way through it (I am a fast reader), and I think I understand it for the most part (I am a PK), so I think I understand where you are coming from. I will answer your answer specifically, but again, I wanted to say great job answering them, I really like your answers, and I can understand why you would believe that, even if I believe differently.

Hmmm, I still don't believe that that in and of itself has anything to do with salvation, or does anything for you. I believe that there is power in prayer, but that the pope has no more power than anyone else. Do you at least agree that paying the church to absolve you of your sins is antibiblical?

So what about the pope saying that LGBTQ is ok? Would you say he is correct, this is a matter of human error, or what? Also, can a pope contradict another pope on matters of religion?

I believe that is the passage. So are you saying that my dad (he is a pastor in the PCA) can, through Christ's authority, cleanse people of their sins? Or just Catholic priests? And, either way, wherein the Bible does it say that the priests have that ability? And, (sorry for the multi-layered question) why do we have priests, when Jesus is our High Preist? (Don't say he is the High Preist, and that means there are lower priests, please, that is just a fallacy of composition)

How could we know the hearts of people, and know whether or not they are "good enough" to "put a good word in for us". Also, are you aware that this doctrine is solely from how the Romans did business, and not what happened in the BIble? The only mediator, who "puts in a good word" is Jesus Christ.

I don't think I can really argue with this last part, as there is no real evidence that will convince either one of us on anything, as it is a difference of reading the scripture, but, I did want to say that there were no popes in Rome for hundreds of years, and it only grew out of a power grab originally, but as I said, it isn't really worth arguing. It is cool to actually have it explained in depth though, thank you.

I completely understand, this is draining stuff, and I am glad to see a Catholic who actually knows what he believes in, and doesn't just direct me to the priest. Thank you for your time so far, I have enjoyed it.

Alexander the magnus wrote:

(I like the blank quotes btw, it serves the same purpose without all the text, never thought to do that :) )

Firstly, thank you, sorry everything was a bit ‘off’ but it seems you caught my meaning on most counts. I too see why you hold your beliefs and see your line of thinking, you too consistently provide detailed and intelligent points which is indeed appreciated.

To open by reflecting off your last points, I agree with your opening point and I think as we get to the ‘finer details’ now (or perhaps ‘fundamentals’ is a better word), we will run into more impasses where our beliefs are quite ‘firmly rooted’ and as you said, nothing you or I could say can really change that. But we haven’t hit that point on all things yet so, here are my reactions to your points.

I will say there is certainly a reason the Church no longer allows the practice and paying for absolution is indeed wrong. However, I would also counter by saying that there is an argument for the money being less a ‘payment’ and more of a penance, keep in mind that these things were not cheap and aimed more at the merchants and nobility than the peasantry, just one indulgence often costed a year’s earnings for many people and these would be people who placed a great value on money (despite that too being wrong) and parting with such a n amount would not be easy for them, thus combined with a true wish to repent, it would certainly be quite the penance, that being said, I merely point that out as something to consider more than a statement on whether or not it is right, as I said, the Church disallows the sale of indulgences and views the practice as wrong, as do I.

As I see it, Pope Francis is trying to make the mentality reflect that of ‘hate the sin not the sinner’, and foster a more loving and welcoming atmosphere as nothing is ever accomplished by driving people away and if the Church shows their love for all people, as Jesus taught, then they would obviously be more willing to accept the teachings of Christ rather than if we foster an atmosphere of personal hatred towards the individuals which would lead to such people trying their backs on Christ as a whole. The Pope has hardly made any drastic changes, and the Vatican has been sure to dispel anything that might be construed as the Pope endorsing a change of dogma, issuing clarifications of what the Pope was trying to do (foster a more open environment where people would be more willing to embrace Christ) vs what they might think he was trying to do but wasn’t (change Church Dogma). Additionally, yes, Popes can contradict Popes. Papal infallibility is tied to the time in which they live and the context of their time. God’s Will, excluding on the major issues, of course, is not entirely static, instead it is like a river and slowly repositions itself to match what it needs to be. Do not construe this as man changing God to suit his needs but rather God changing Himself and informing man as the direction God needs us to go in evolves itself.

The authority to forgive sins is based on the succession of Peter, that is tot say, Jesus delayed His authority to Peter, who passed that on to his successors the Pope and the Pope delegated it to the Bishops, who delegate it to the Priests via the Sacrament of Holy Orders. Therefore, no, your father could not forgive sins as he has not received the Sacrament of Holy Orders and the delegated authority, passed on by Christ. I, of course, mean no offense or disrespect to your father by this, but I doubt you would be offended by me saying your dad cannot forgive sins :) The ability to forgive sins again links to Peter (sorry to keep coming back to this point but it is one of the cornerstones of the specifics of Catholic belief, hence my point that we may come to more impasses as we go on) and his ability to loosen and bind on Earth and that to be done in Heaven, in this case it is loosening people’s sins. I would also say that the events with Simon were an example of Peter quasi-forgiving sins as he tells Simon where he went wrong and then Simon asks him to pray to God for his forgiveness (effectively) but this last part is not Catholic teaching as far as I am aware, just my personal interpretation, so take it with a pinch of salt, as they say. Don’t worry, I’m not going to go down the lesser priests route. I will say that the priests are like the Apostles and are in fact meant to be their successors, they were the leaders and guides of the early Church community after Christ left us physically, and so too do the priests fulfill the same role today. Christ is no longer with us physically (although he is, was and always will be with us spiritually) and certain aspects of the Church need to be done physically and there is a need for certain individuals to particularly pick up those roles, again, as the Apostles and St Paul did in their time.

Perhaps ‘put in a good word’ was a poor choice of words on my part, my meaning was more on the other part of ‘more people praying for you’. Can we be certain that these people were 100% good, perhaps not, but from their acts of great faith which showed their strong and undeniable dedication to Christ and his teachings, we can be fairly certain. We don’t need a saint to pray for us but they are there for us if we wish for another set of prayers for us, we ask our contemporaries on Earth to pray for us in times of need, don’t we? Asking a saint to intercede for us is like that but, we believe, they are already in Heaven. As for the Bible does not mention saints, whilst they main not mention them by name, I would say particularly St. John the Baptist and St. Paul as people highlighted for their faith and devotion to Christ are quintessential models for saints. Once again, they were just more consequential because of their specific circumstances. As for Jesus putting in a good word for us, Christ is certainly the mediator and ultimate authority, being the closest one to God as His only Son and also God Himself but the saints as good people, who lived lives following His teachings or performing great deeds in His name and as He would wish them to, praying for us to Him does not contradict that and indeed, I feel, complements it, as for why there might or might not be a need for this when God is already omniscient, see my previous post.

I am happy to have this conversation with you, I’ve met a few Protestants whose arguments have basically been ‘Burn in Hell, Papist Scum who worships false gods!’ which as you can imagine is neither a good basis for the sharing of beliefs nor enjoyable. I truly appreciate your civil discussion and that all you say is founded on good knowledge and careful reflection on Scripture. I thank you as well for your time and have likewise enjoyed it thus far.

Alexander the magnus

Dominant Oppressors wrote:

Sure! (Sorry I didnt see this post.)

Yes. 100% if I understand what you are saying. Christ was/is fully God and Fully man, at the same time. Otherwise is heresy.

Yes, we believe that the Last Supper is a remembrance of the actual last supper. It is similar to if it actually happened if we were there. Holy, yes, but we are not eating the body of Christ, it is a metaphor. I believe the Bible strongly condemns canabolism.

No, there is a hierarchy, (It is actually something we Presbyterians are known for.) Each church has elders, and those elders are responsible for the church. Then a group of elders from different churches make up a Presbytery, and that is accountable to the denomination as a group. It is similar to Moses and the chiefs of tens, hundreds, and thousands.

It is absolutely a joy, and not offensive. I just hope I can answer any questions you have.

(I will respond to your newest post ASAP, but I gtg now. Bai!)

Alexander the magnus wrote:Yeah, I am Christian too, but LOL, I am conservative Presbyterian. So I prob disagree with a lot of beliefs, but I am glad to see a strong Christian region.

My father's also a Presbyterian to. I go to a Church Of Christ, do you know what denomination that is?

Dominant Oppressors wrote:You speak real sense, sir! Unfortunately, a growing rarity in the world haha

Ah yes, thank you sir/ma'am!

Alexander the magnus and Dominant Oppressors

Quick question, does anyone agree with same sex marriage over here? I do indeed, agree with same sex marriage.

Team lennox wrote:My father's also a Presbyterian to. I go to a Church Of Christ, do you know what denomination that is?Ah yes, thank you sir/ma'am!

Cool. I kinda do, my da says it is ok, but is a little too fundamentalist. Do you believe that Baptism saves?

Alexander the magnus wrote:

No worries, these things happen! :)

Yes, that's exactly what I'm saying. There some Churches that reject this, albeit they are in minority, thankfully, so I thought it was wise to start by checking that. There's a point for agreement, at least.

Ah, I see, that is an interesting view of it and actually a lot more nuanced than I had previously imagined / had it described to me, thank you for clarifying that. Catholic teaching on the matter has some similarities but also some differences. While we do believe that the bread and wine at every Eucharistic celebration are converted into the Body and Blood of Christ, we don't believe that literally (like someone taking a Shylock-esque pound of flesh from Christ would not be the same, that is to say its not physically flesh and blood as cannibalism is indeed very, very wrong, as you say) but more in that it is Spiritually transformed into His Body and Blood and that He is present in the sacrament. I would also like to point out somewhat of an interesting similarity in the "if it actually happened if we were there" part, as we believe that at the Last Supper, Christ looked into / was a part of simultaneously into the past (Moses' and the Israelites' original Passover meal), the present (the Last Supper where He physically was) and the future (all future Eucharistic celebrations), so there is certainly a comparison to make between the two. I know you didn't ask what the Catholic teaching on the matter but I felt the implied social convention would be to go into it, if I misinterpreted this and you found it 'extra', so to speak, I really do apologise.

Oh, I see, that's pretty cool, especially the similarity to the system with Moses. I also see that's where the name comes from as well, interesting!

Glad to hear it and thank you so much for answering them, you did a great job and now whenever it is mentioned I will have a better understanding of these aspects of it, thank you very much!

No problem whatsoever, take your time, we all have things to do outside of NS, so that is perfectly understandable :)

Alexander the magnus and Team lennox

Team lennox wrote:Ah yes, thank you sir/ma'am!

"Sir" is cool, I'm a male but I appreciate you not assuming and I apologise for not extending the same courtesy to you :)

Alexander the magnus wrote:Cool. I kinda do, my da says it is ok, but is a little too fundamentalist. Do you believe that Baptism saves?

Yes, I believe that baptism washes away all your sins (if that's what you mean). Oh and thank you for helping me find my denomination! (sir/ma'am)

Dominant Oppressors wrote:"Sir" is cool, I'm a male but I appreciate you not assuming and I apologise for not extending the same courtesy to you :)

It's fine, I am also a male (also you sound British, in America we say "Apologize, but in Britain, y'all say "Apologise", just sayin')

Alexander the magnus and Dominant Oppressors

Team lennox wrote:Yes, I believe that baptism washes away all your sins (if that's what you mean). Oh and thank you for helping me find my denomination! (sir/ma'am)It's fine, I am also a male (also you sound British, in America we say "Apologize, but in Britain, y'all say "Apologise", just sayin')

I am indeed British, British-Maltese to be specific and British English is my language game! haha Its cool that you picked up on that, I don't think I would have had the roles been reversed lol.

I take it you are American, then? If so, what state are you from?

Team lennox

Dominant Oppressors wrote:I am indeed British, British-Maltese to be specific and British English is my language game! haha Its cool that you picked up on that, I don't think I would have had the roles been reversed lol.

I take it you are American, then? If so, what state are you from?

Yes, I'm an American, and I live in the state Maryland. I also have British friends in my region such as Kingdom Of Englands. Our's and your languages are different (Examples: Car park, Parking lot, Chips, Crisps, etc)

Dominant Oppressors wrote:I am indeed British, British-Maltese to be specific and British English is my language game! haha Its cool that you picked up on that, I don't think I would have had the roles been reversed lol.

I take it you are American, then? If so, what state are you from?

Britain seems like such a fine nation. It seems peaceful and very quiet.

Team lennox wrote:Yes, I'm an American, and I live in the state Maryland. I also have British friends in my region such as Kingdom Of Englands. Our's and your languages are different (Examples: Car park, Parking lot, Chips, Crisps, etc)

That's cool, I really like Maryland's flag btw ... its got a nice medieval flavour to it almost.

I'm aware of a number of the differences, I always find it funny and very interesting how the language split geographically due to the various historical factors (American Revolution being one of them but not the only one as we can see from Canadian English still having some, although less, differences from both American and British English) as well as geography itself.

Kingdom Of Englands and Team lennox

Dominant Oppressors wrote:That's cool, I really like Maryland's flag btw ... its got a nice medieval flavour to it almost.

I'm aware of a number of the differences, I always find it funny and very interesting how the language split geographically due to the various historical factors (American Revolution being one of them but not the only one as we can see from Canadian English still having some, although less, differences from both American and British English) as well as geography itself.

Yeah ikr

Team lennox wrote:Britain seems like such a fine nation. It seems peaceful and very quiet.

America seems pretty cool too, my mother almost moved us to North Carolina when I was young but that didn't end up materialising. American culture is very globally dominant, so I like to think I have a good feel for it and despite being a united nation, each region also has its own similar-yet-different versions of said American culture in a way that other countries don't really replicate precisely (not regional cultural differences but the precise nuances of said differences), which is very cool as well :)

Kingdom Of Englands and Team lennox

Dominant Oppressors wrote:America seems pretty cool too, my mother almost moved us to North Carolina when I was young but that didn't end up materialising. American culture is very globally dominant, so I like to think I have a good feel for it and despite being a united nation, each region also has its own similar-yet-different versions of said American culture in a way that other countries don't really replicate precisely (not regional cultural differences but the precise nuances of said differences), which is very cool as well :)

America's a very diverse nation. My parents moved here from Ghana. And thx

Team lennox wrote:Yes, I believe that baptism washes away all your sins (if that's what you mean). Oh and thank you for helping me find my denomination! (sir/ma'am)It's fine, I am also a male (also you sound British, in America we say "Apologize, but in Britain, y'all say "Apologise", just sayin')

Yeah... That is not Biblical, at least that is how we view that doctrine (We as in my denom PCA). Baptism is a sacrament, as a sign that you are coming into the covenantal family of the Church. It does not save you, or wash away your sins.

Dominant Oppressors and Team lennox

Alexander the magnus wrote:Yeah... That is not Biblical, at least that is how we view that doctrine (We as in my denom PCA). Baptism is a sacrament, as a sign that you are coming into the covenantal family of the Church. It does not save you, or wash away your sins.

Acts, Chapter 22, Verse 16, says; "And now, why tariest thou? Arise, and be baptized, and wash away thy sinnes, calling on the name of the Lord."

Alexander the magnus and Dominant Oppressors

Team lennox wrote:Acts, Chapter 22, Verse 16, says; "And now, why tariest thou? Arise, and be baptized, and wash away thy sinnes, calling on the name of the Lord."

I think you are focusing on the "be baptized, and wash away thy sinnes", not the "calling on the name of the Lord". This I believe is a misreading of the text. You are saved by the name of the Lord, not the baptism. Baptism is a sign of faith, but not salvation.

Dominant Oppressors and Team lennox

Alexander the magnus wrote:I think you are focusing on the "be baptized, and wash away thy sinnes", not the "calling on the name of the Lord". This I believe is a misreading of the text. You are saved by the name of the Lord, not the baptism. Baptism is a sign of faith, but not salvation.

Oh it makes sense. Thx mate.

Alexander the magnus and Dominant Oppressors

Team lennox wrote:Oh it makes sense. Thx mate.

Yeah, Np.

Dominant Oppressors and Team lennox

Bruh yo, I really need to find a fine Christian flag. Like I want the cross and everything, but like I also want it to be military style, like I'm off fighting of bad people and sin, like Jesus did.

Bruh yo, I really need to find a fine Christian flag. Like I want the cross and everything, but like I also want it to be military style, like I'm off fighting of bad people and sin, like Jesus did.

Team lennox wrote:Bruh yo, I really need to find a fine Christian flag. Like I want the cross and everything, but like I also want it to be military style, like I'm off fighting of bad people and sin, like Jesus did.

Hmmm ... that’s a cool motif your looking for ... if you want to pull from history maybe try some of the Crusader states, my personal recommendations would be the Kingdom of Jerusalem (or the Order of the Holy Sepulcher for a more imposing red version), the Knights Templar, the Knights of St. John (not their proper flag although that’s nice enough, the one with the 8-pointed cross), the Livonian Brothers of the Sword, the Teutonic Order (I personally prefer the slightly ahistorical one with the yellow on) or the Latin Empire of Constantinople. I also personally like the flag of the Kingdom of Galicia as it has the Holy Grail on it, the Principality of Asturias is also pretty cool. Alternatively, a bit less militaristic is the Christian Flag which was designed in 1897 to represent Christendom or, if none of those thickly your fancy, you could take to MS paint or an equivalent software and design your own, you’d be surprised what kinds of cool designs you can put together with enough time and practice :)

I hope that at least one of these ideas is somewhat helpful to you, if you want more suggestions or something like that I could talk flags till the cows come home haha

Team lennox

«12. . .229230231232233234235. . .249250»

Advertisement