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Free Market Buisnesses wrote:1. Stalin blew it, and that doesn't make US actions justified.

2. Communism isn't a type of government, it's a type of economy. Additionally there is a difference between "private property" and "personal property". Private property is stuff like land, farms, and factories. Personal property is stuff like your house (probably), phone and tooth brush. Personally, I'm in favor of capitalism, but I do hate it when people say something is stupid without understanding it.

3. The thing that is the greatest advantage of humans over similar speciesólike monkeysóis that we can learn and do things against our nature. Honestly, that's just insulting, and humans are the only species that even considers helping things that it's not genetically related to, so I would say helping each other is in our nature.

4. If there aren't enough resources, we make more. That's what we do. We are capable of producing more food and the only thing that's holding us back is our cultural obsession with money. Money isn't human nature; if it was economics would be easy. People care so much about money because it's hammered into their skull from infancy that they can't be successful without it. Also, communism is and economic system, you're arguing about a form of government run economy spread by Stalin. Communism can exist without government interference. Besides, what you described is what happens in capitalism.

5. The angry rant was not the important part of what I wrote. You were meant to respond to the lower section. Interesting that you only responded to the angry rant, perhaps you don't have anything to counter what I said below it?

6. A classless and stateless society is unavoidable unless technology stagnates or we kill ourselves off in WW3 or 4, which I expect to happen in less than 200 years and 500 years, respectively. At the very latest a classless, stateless society will be achieved by the end of the millennia.

Or perhaps peaceful unification? We do have a UN, so maybe that slowly grows more powerful as a wave of globalism and workers rights appears as a reaction to the current rise of isolationism and nationalism? Also, nearly all republics were run by nobles. I am only aware of two peasant republics in recent history, and those only existed due to small size, difficult terrain, and low value. (And they all got stomped)
Is English not your first language? If not what is? I'd be interested to see what sort of place you come from. If not middle US, then probably Eastern Europe, Asia, or South/Central America. Also, so you're an advocate for socialism? Also, if you think "global communism" was what they meant when they said "true communism", then I don't think you were listening. What they meant was that communism is when the workers have the means of production, and that those examples you gave were when the state had seized the means of production. "M8", that's the point of communism. That the wealthy have too much power, and therefore drastic change will be required to get anything done.

It's so refreshing to see a pro-capitalist who actually understands what communism is rather than coming out with the knee-jer "durr communism bad because Stalin."

By the way, it's me again Divine Egypt. This is yet another nation of mine. :P

Anyone farm cards?

Treadwellia wrote:13 days until 2 Tubby years!

I thought His Inmensity was everlasting. Anyways, thanks for sharing, we'll be prepared for that day, and may the Obese One gets fatter.

<<< Gives government money to the automobile manufacturers. "This'll give employment a boost" says I.

Result: car-manufacturing sector grows but unemployment gets worse.

......

Guiness Freaks wrote:Capitalism will *eventually save us all. Just give it a few more hundred years or so.

Also there is absolutely a discussion to be had regarding power and the powerful in any governmental structure. Even anarchy. My personal problem is that the system is designed for power to be held by a select few and they in turn make the rules (speaking about the USA here) to keep themselves and their *friends wealthy and in power. A true representative government would give every citizen a voice and truly look out for all citizens.

As one of the most successful capitalist economist said "In the Long Run We Are All Dead". And that it is not a problem it is a feature. The core problem of the capitalist economies is that they work mainly by sweeping the problems under the rug, that nice label of externalities.
Of course it could run well for a time a few centuries, but it come to an end when it crash into the ecological and societal stress limits.

(And no, the space colonization gateway it is not the complete answer, with an exponential grow you are going to make the problem worse or fall into the Jevon's Paradox. Nonetheless even Heinleinian characters like Musk or late defenders of Gerard K O'Neill like Bezos are arriving half a century late after capitalism broke free of the social contract, (in the seventies during Nixon Era embracing the Austrian and Chicago non sense), that make it work (at least in the developed world).

Capitalism has already condemned us. The question is if we can limit the damage and rebuild afterwards.

Treadwellia wrote:13 days until 2 Tubby years!

Ludwig Orsonov Mmphs in approval

Post self-deleted by Surd.

Free Market Buisnesses wrote:

1. Stalin blew it, and that doesn't make US actions justified.

2. Communism isn't a type of government, it's a type of economy. Additionally there is a difference between "private property" and "personal property". Private property is stuff like land, farms, and factories. Personal property is stuff like your house (probably), phone and tooth brush. Personally, I'm in favor of capitalism, but I do hate it when people say something is stupid without understanding it.

3. The thing that is the greatest advantage of humans over similar species—like monkeys—is that we can learn and do things against our nature. Honestly, that's just insulting, and humans are the only species that even considers helping things that it's not genetically related to, so I would say helping each other is in our nature.

4. If there aren't enough resources, we make more. That's what we do. We are capable of producing more food and the only thing that's holding us back is our cultural obsession with money. Money isn't human nature; if it was economics would be easy. People care so much about money because it's hammered into their skull from infancy that they can't be successful without it. Also, communism is and economic system, you're arguing about a form of government run economy spread by Stalin. Communism can exist without government interference. Besides, what you described is what happens in capitalism.

5. The angry rant was not the important part of what I wrote. You were meant to respond to the lower section. Interesting that you only responded to the angry rant, perhaps you don't have anything to counter what I said below it?

6. A classless and stateless society is unavoidable unless technology stagnates or we kill ourselves off in WW3 or 4, which I expect to happen in less than 200 years and 500 years, respectively. At the very latest a classless, stateless society will be achieved by the end of the millennia.


Or perhaps peaceful unification? We do have a UN, so maybe that slowly grows more powerful as a wave of globalism and workers rights appears as a reaction to the current rise of isolationism and nationalism? Also, nearly all republics were run by nobles. I am only aware of two peasant republics in recent history, and those only existed due to small size, difficult terrain, and low value. (And they all got stomped)

Is English not your first language? If not what is? I'd be interested to see what sort of place you come from. If not middle US, then probably Eastern Europe, Asia, or South/Central America. Also, so you're an advocate for socialism? Also, if you think "global communism" was what they meant when they said "true communism", then I don't think you were listening. What they meant was that communism is when the workers have the means of production, and that those examples you gave were when the state had seized the means of production.
"M8", that's the point of communism. That the wealthy have too much power, and therefore drastic change will be required to get anything done.

What concerns me the about a stateless society would be lack of order. I believe that specialisation is the very essence of what makes a civilisation. I am also not too fond of letting technology develop without restriction, Automation for example, I am not afraid of it or afraid of it stealing jobs, but I believe that products made entirely by workers are special and unique. I am also against the rampant materialism that seems to be spreading like a wildfire, so much so that I have been trying to join a monastery for two years now but I can't really find one that isn't Catholic. A life of simplicity and manual labour is my ideal life, without the threat of being arrested for not paying taxes and not even needing money at all.

Yes, I know some of the things I said contradict each other, that's because I am not against a stateless and classless society. I am simply concerned about enforcement of basic laws like "don't kill other people", there will always be people seeking to harm others, and I do believe that there should be some way of enforcing basic laws similar to example I gave, and I do believe that people should be the ones to do that.

And I only support colonising other Planets because it just cool, and because the Earth will die at some point no matter what we do and I want humanity to still exist when it happens. We, as a species, might have been born here but I don't think we should die here.

NordicLand84 wrote:i got a free cookie from my mom

Poggers

NordicLand84 wrote:i got a free cookie from my mom

Pog moment

NordicLand84 wrote:i got a free cookie from my mom

Tubbius loves cookies.

Post by DeadlyAntics suppressed by a moderator.

Tubbius frowns. He likes our Discord!

Hraban wrote:What concerns me the about a stateless society would be lack of order. I believe that specialisation is the very essence of what makes a civilisation. I am also not too fond of letting technology develop without restriction, Automation for example, I am not afraid of it or afraid of it stealing jobs, but I believe that products made entirely by workers are special and unique. I am also against the rampant materialism that seems to be spreading like a wildfire, so much so that I have been trying to join a monastery for two years now but I can't really find one that isn't Catholic. A life of simplicity and manual labour is my ideal life, without the threat of being arrested for not paying taxes and not even needing money at all.

Yes, I know some of the things I said contradict each other, that's because I am not against a stateless and classless society. I am simply concerned about enforcement of basic laws like "don't kill other people", there will always be people seeking to harm others, and I do believe that there should be some way of enforcing basic laws similar to example I gave, and I do believe that people should be the ones to do that.

And I only support colonising other Planets because it just cool, and because the Earth will die at some point no matter what we do and I want humanity to still exist when it happens. We, as a species, might have been born here but I don't think we should die here.

To jump in, there are many non Catholic monastic orders. Try Buddhist or Hindu ones. (The Advaita Vedanta school of Hindu philosophy has a number of monastic communities spread throughout my home state of California, one is in the next neighborhood over from myself.)
Also with stateless societies, lack of hierarchy =/= lack of order. I think that might be a logical fallacy, as hierarchy and order are not related. You can have "order" which is hard to define, with or without a hierarchy or state.

The Isles of Great Britain and Ireland wrote:It's so refreshing to see a pro-capitalist who actually understands what communism is rather than coming out with the knee-jer "durr communism bad because Stalin."

By the way, it's me again Divine Egypt. This is yet another nation of mine. :P

Are you also one of those?

The Isles of Great Britain and Ireland wrote:<<< Gives government money to the automobile manufacturers. "This'll give employment a boost" says I.

Result: car-manufacturing sector grows but unemployment gets worse.

......

Probably spent it on robots.

Aigania wrote:As one of the most successful capitalist economist said "In the Long Run We Are All Dead". And that it is not a problem it is a feature. The core problem of the capitalist economies is that they work mainly by sweeping the problems under the rug, that nice label of externalities.
(deleted stuff)
Capitalism has already condemned us. The question is if we can limit the damage and rebuild afterwards.

So you also think WW4 will occur due to unemployment approaching 100% from automation?

Hraban wrote:What concerns me the about a stateless society would be lack of order. I believe that specialisation is the very essence of what makes a civilisation. I am also not too fond of letting technology develop without restriction, Automation for example, I am not afraid of it or afraid of it stealing jobs, but I believe that products made entirely by workers are special and unique. I am also against the rampant materialism that seems to be spreading like a wildfire, so much so that I have been trying to join a monastery for two years now but I can't really find one that isn't Catholic. A life of simplicity and manual labour is my ideal life, without the threat of being arrested for not paying taxes and not even needing money at all.

Yes, I know some of the things I said contradict each other, that's because I am not against a stateless and classless society. I am simply concerned about enforcement of basic laws like "don't kill other people", there will always be people seeking to harm others, and I do believe that there should be some way of enforcing basic laws similar to example I gave, and I do believe that people should be the ones to do that.

And I only support colonising other Planets because it just cool, and because the Earth will die at some point no matter what we do and I want humanity to still exist when it happens. We, as a species, might have been born here but I don't think we should die here.

I'm pretty sure that's just a specific version of communism. A communist economy and a government could coexist, just like with capitalism. Also, there will always be a market for hand crafted goods, no matter how much automation has occurred, because of people you.

Cianlandia wrote:To jump in, there are many non Catholic monastic orders. Try Buddhist or Hindu ones. (The Advaita Vedanta school of Hindu philosophy has a number of monastic communities spread throughout my home state of California, one is in the next neighborhood over from myself.)
Also with stateless societies, lack of hierarchy =/= lack of order. I think that might be a logical fallacy, as hierarchy and order are not related. You can have "order" which is hard to define, with or without a hierarchy or state.

Personally, I think that some form of state forming is inevitable. Stuff like people not killing each other is something most of us want, and a collective effort to prevent theft and killing is logical. States are formed out of formalized societal contracts.

Free Market Buisnesses wrote:Are you also one of those?
Probably spent it on robots.So you also think WW4 will occur due to unemployment approaching 100% from automation?I'm pretty sure that's just a specific version of communism. A communist economy and a government could coexist, just like with capitalism. Also, there will always be a market for hand crafted goods, no matter how much automation has occurred, because of people you.Personally, I think that some form of state forming is inevitable. Stuff like people not killing each other is something most of us want, and a collective effort to prevent theft and killing is logical. States are formed out of formalized societal contracts.

I think you skipped a world war there

Not An Alt wrote:I think you skipped a world war there

WW3 will be caused by mass overpopulation and starvation following the creation of eternal youth. Eternal youth should occur this century and WW3 should occur within the next 200 years unless we regulate reproduction, which I don't see happening pre-war. I'm not actually sure what a post-WW3 world would like, hence WW4 happening by end of millennia. I hope to survive the Third World War, but making it past the fourth might be tricky, as I expect that to be a global revolution caused by mass starvation and possible dictatorship/oligarchy created by aforementioned near 100% unemployment rate from automation, so living to WW4 might be difficult, even with the advent of eternal youth.

The "by the end of millennia" is to compensate for the global state of chaos I expect to occur within the next 200 years possibly causing A) communism, which would impede automation (hence why I'm a capitalist), B) widespread technophobia inhibiting human development, or C) we nuke ourselves into the Stone Age.

If our corporate overlords are benevolent we may skip past WW4 straight into futuristic communist utopia.

Free Market Buisnesses wrote:WW3 will be caused by mass overpopulation and starvation following the creation of eternal youth. Eternal youth should occur this century and WW3 should occur within the next 200 years unless we regulate reproduction, which I don't see happening pre-war. I'm not actually sure what a post-WW3 world would like, hence WW4 happening by end of millennia. I hope to survive the Third World War, but making it past the fourth might be tricky, as I expect that to be a global revolution caused by mass starvation and possible dictatorship/oligarchy created by aforementioned near 100% unemployment rate from automation, so living to WW4 might be difficult, even with the advent of eternal youth.

The "by the end of millennia" is to compensate for the global state of chaos I expect to occur within the next 200 years possibly causing A) communism, which would impede automation (hence why I'm a capitalist), B) widespread technophobia inhibiting human development, or C) we nuke ourselves into the Stone Age.

If our corporate overlords are benevolent we may skip past WW4 straight into futuristic communist utopia.

Lies. It'll happen in 2077, caused by the US invasion of China getting close to Beijing, and the Chinese panicking and deciding to launch.

So I feel stupid asking this, especially interrupting the great conversation about WWIII, which I would love to get involved in. But anyway, how do you change text color in things like telegrams or factbooks?

The New California Republic wrote:Lies. It'll happen in 2077, caused by the US invasion of China getting close to Beijing, and the Chinese panicking and deciding to launch.

But WHY is the US invading China? Also, I said within the next 200 years. My personal prediction is about 90 years from now.

Free Market Buisnesses wrote:Are you also one of those?

No, I'm a socialist.

Free Market Buisnesses wrote:But WHY is the US invading China? Also, I said within the next 200 years. My personal prediction is about 90 years from now.

The Chinese invaded Alaska.

The Isles of Great Britain and Ireland wrote:No, I'm a socialist.

Isn't socialism capitalism, but with certain essential industries (healthcare, power, etc.) nationalized? Or alternatively communism and capitalism could be said to be opposite ends of a socialist spectrum?

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