the intersection of environment and infrastructure is not, strictly speaking, an economic issue.
however; since any attempt to value logic over symbolic value is viewed by pseudo-"conservative" crapitalism as "socialist",
fine, "call me anything, just don't call me late for dinner".
i don't view economic flavors as having a direct relationship to personal individual freedoms either.
granted i don't believe in procustian magic wands, there is no one size that fits all, but in the context of environment, what we're talking about is preseving the diversity of the default our own existence, along with that of every other living creature, we all depend on.
i view governments as earning their keep, by not only protecting the lives and well being of sapient people, but well, ok, even that, depends on a healthy environment, so that really has to come first. and while that can, up to a point, be done so in the fraimwork of other ideological flavours, again really, the environment is the foundation everything else has to stand on, the incentives built into fascio-crapitalsm are just too much too often in the direction against doing so.
Putting NS labels aside, I don't think eco-fascism is logically impossible, though it's never been implemented in any real world government. Theoretically though, a military autocratic state which has a central agenda of environmentalism could fall into that category, and with the growing climate change concerns of this century and with the failure of liberal democracies to tackle said issues, its not altogether unfeasible that a popular uprising could occur and non-democratically install an autocratic pro-environmental government.
I mean, let's not forget, it's a stated goal of Extinction Rebellion that "government must create, and be led by the decisions of, a citizens' assembly on climate and ecological justice". The mechanism for the formation of such an assembly isn't clear, but you can bet that XR members have "people with an environmental agenda" in mind as being on that group, rather than just a random cross-section of the population.
That's not to say I'm opposed to the idea, but rather than its worth recognising that the idea of putting an enlightened cognoscenti in charge is a lot closer to the ideals of fascism than the ideals of liberal democracy.
We all know and recognise that laissez-faire capitalism doesn't tend to create environmental responsibility. There's such a thing as responsible capitalism, of course, but it's been shown time and again that an unregulated free market tends to lead to environmental damage through externalities. Its only when corporations are held to account and restricted that we see environmental protection occurring. By its very nature, the profit motive does best when getting other people to pay the costs for your own benefits. Environmentalism, on the other hand, is inherently a collaborative effort, requiring personal sacrifice in exchange for the greater good. Whether that personal sacrifice is most effectively triggered by a mature society volunarily restricting itself, or by a didactic government forcing those sacrifices, that's open to debate.
However, I think it's theoretically possible for eco-fascism to exist. Not endorsing it as a good thing, of course, just recognising that it is a political possibility.
Eco-authoritarianism is definitely possible. But Fascism is a very strict kind of authoritarianism. Fascism is built around tradition, order and hierarchy and I find it very difficult to believe that Fascists would define tackling climate change, protecting the ecosystems and setting long term plans to prevent enviornmental armaggedon a priority. There is a reason why the vast majority of fascists and far right authoritarians call climate change a hoax and support getting rid of enviornmental restrictions.
Very good point about fascism not being the same as authoritarianism.
For me, Fascism is a combination of ultra-nationalism (including racism, chauvinism, and anti-immigration) and authoritarianism (usually by means of a secret police and/or very strong, chauvinist military).
Using the 8Values way of measuring ideologies, I’d say that normal fascism is:
Foreign Policy: Chauvinist (occasionally just nationalist)
Socially: Very Conservative
However, I suppose it would be possible to have an eco-friendly authoritarian chauvinist anti-globalist nationalist conservative racist anti-immigrant regime though it would be very rare.
Authoritarian Environmentalism is possible, as is anti-globalist nationalist environmentalism (though it would likely be more of an autarky than chauvinist). However, it would not make much sense to have a Very Conservative environmentalist regime, as most conservatives are eco-skeptical at best, and eco-racism and anti-immigrant environmentalism is certainly not possible, since almost all environmentalists agree that a) since there will be more climate refugees, we must be more pro-immigrant than we are already, and b) that racism has no place in an environmentalist society, since the GND and other climate plans rare meant to help alleviate vulnerable communities, and c) that we need all people to work together for an eco-friendly future, so we can’t exclude communities.
And thus, while I think eco-authoritarianism is possible and even maybe eco-nationalism, eco-fascism is not a realistic ideology.
I think you're being very charitable and optimistic about people in this. Eco-fascism can absolutely be a thing in all of those circumstances.
For example, an eco-fascist state could claim that the state of the environment within their own borders was the most paramount thing, or even argue that since other countries were not taking care of their nature they therefore need their 'leadership'. Hell, we already talk about the discrepancy between different countries' handling of the environment, most clear when discussing the difference between Haiti and the Dominican Republic. No reason why a fascist regime couldn't go down that line.
There isn't really any reason why you couldn't marry conservative social policy with strict environmental awareness. "Every woman must have 3 babies so that we will have soldiers to help educate the rest of the world on environmental issues". Just because conservatives right now tend to be eco-skeptic doesn't mean that has to always be the case.
We are talking about fascism here. Even if an environmental kind. The notion that they'd particularly care if a couple million foreigners and ethnic minorities die in refugee camps, is .... fanciful. Eco-fascists could even argue along the lines that killing minorities and refugees is good for the environment as that's less people consuming resources. And communities could absolutely be ignored if they are dominated, ethnically cleansed and then replaced with your own people- cos the previous group was obviously not a good custodian of God's green gift.
I'd actually go so far as to say that some flavour of environmental authoritarianism is a very real prospect for the 21st century, including eco-fascism following your definition. Sometimes it's the thing that keeps me up at night.
Right, I could definitely see death camps with environmentalism as the excuse. Horrifying, but entirely plausible, given that just about every other reason has been used at some time in history to justify genocide.
These sorts of things would be most likely to emerge at the 11th hour, when people start demanding drastic solutions, and perhaps against a backdrop of growing xenophobia, nationalism and anti-intellectual sentiment.
So that'dbe right now then, eh?
Roleplay - The DTS Information Vault
An organization of present-day historical preservationists known as the Deep Time Society have announced their intentions to establish an “Information Vault” on a small island far to the north of mainland Sol. The facility will contain synthetic DNA samples used to store vast amounts of information which can be read via DNA computing.
In these conditions, the information could very well last millions of years. Though under normal conditions it would degrade beyond readability in little over a million, this time alone vastly exceeds organized sapient society on our world – And researchers believe that with steadily advancing synthesis and preservation techniques, the longevity of the molecule can be increased even further.
This plan was made possible by recent advances in DNA sequencing, allowing for it to be performed at a cost vastly cheaper than was previously available. The Deep Time Society has taken the opportunity to open submissions to the public at large, near and far. Governments, organizations, and individuals alike are encouraged to submit any sort of information they wish to see preserved, regardless of format. Media as straightforward as plain text or as complex as entire video games can be “ported” to the DNA format and stored within the incredibly space-efficient molecule.
Heyo friends! The SPSF has come out with it's weekly report, which you can find below.
TSP Forum: https://tspforums.xyz/thread-8420-post-203727.html#pid203727
“Hey, look at that…” The most adorable smol Catgirl Sweeze, the notorious leader of the fun-loving drug-pedalling org Lily pointed out over the coast. Everyone in the room dropped their glasses of S.P.I.T. and looked just over the horizon with drunken anticipation.
“What is it, fren?” Phoenix asked, gingerly standing up.
“That Captain Lard fella left his dumpster unattended.” Sweeze smiled, an evil look spreading across her face. Others perked up, turning their attention on the adorable Catgirl commander.
“We’re so in.” The newly-appointed First Warden of the Grey Wardens jumped up from his table, drawing out his rifles with excitement.
Phoenix turned to face General Nakari with a nod, which was only returned with enthusiasm.
“Let’s start a dumpster fire!”
“Alright, on my signal, let’s charge in.” Sweeze whispered, holding up her closed fist. Phoenix discreetly morphed into her normal form, coming to rest her transformed talons on General Nakari’s shoulder. Everyone else seemed to tense up, the hunger for utu very apparent on their faces.
“Wait… is that a… dumpster… on the open ocean???” Phoenix exclaimed, glaring at the floating pile of trash.
“Exactly. And we’re going to take it all and go to town on Lardyboy’s house.” Sweeze snickered.
A silence fell on everyone as they readied themselves for Operation Fashie Meltdown.
“Go.” The adorable Catgirl exclaimed, rapidly sailing their way to the old, rotting pile of trash free-floating in the ocean. And, with expertly-executed flicks of her wrist, trash ended up piling around the as-of-yet vacant house. Others very quickly followed, chucking piles of trash at the house.
In mere seconds, the pile in the ocean was now entirely covering the Lard’s home.
“Honestly, looks much better than it did.” One of the mercenaries, Bluie, chuckled as he chucked the last of the trash over.
“Well, why don’t we go get a drink eh?” Phoenix squawked with enthusiasm. Frenchy made his way over to the window, bashing the window open with the patio table that had been sitting there, surrounded by army green patio chairs, and entered the house, alarms blaring. He casually strode over to where the table landed, grabbed it by the legs, and yeeted it into the door.
“Come on in guys!” Frenchy called out, watching everyone destroy their way in.
Everyone quickly got to work “redecorating” Captain Lard’s home, Sweeze throwing paint everywhere, the furniture team throwing everything to a corner to be incinerated in Phoenix’ fire, and bringing in a few posters on top of the wall. Once they were done, everyone else vacated the house, leaving Phoenix to do her thing: BURN IT ALL DOWN!
Let this be a lesson to those who try to facilitate hatred and disgusting ideologies across the world.
[MERC] Sierra Lyricalia
[MERC] Bluie Gamer
Captain Lard’s “Redecorated” Home (Though it’s been fixed in the meantime >_>):
[TGW] Sir Merlin
[TGW] Sir Merlin
[TGW] Team Leo
[AFP] anti winx
[AFP] anti winx
[TGW] Sir Merlin
[TGW] Team Leo
[AFP] anti winx
[TGW] Sir Merlin
[AFP] anti winx
[TGW] Team Leo
[TGW/EU] VIncent Drake
[TGW/EU] VIncent Drake
Hello everyone! I'm Kuriko, and I'm the current WA Delegate of XKI. Recently I started work on a Security Council resolution to commend Frieden-und Freudenland, but I've hit a snag. I don't know much about what she's done here in Forest, so if anyone has anything they could add to my knowledge that'd be great! If you want to let me know anything, either post in the SC thread (viewtopic.php?f=24&t=488608) or send me a telegram :).
I learn a lot from NationStates. Always have, since I joined the game in the Summer of 2005. I am half South African,and European. UK and Portugal educated.
Still I learn new words in the English language every day - and I love it.
Kerfaffle is the new one. It was brought to me on a game issue.
I'm not an English major, nothing of the sort. Just an anthropologist. But the English language is possibly the greatest love of my life.
Well...fast cars, women and books are fierce competitors.
Is representation in media valuable? Must diverse viewpoints be celebrated and encouraged, or should the film industry not change the status quo to let in outsiders? Is film a medium that matters in reflecting society, and should it be used to show what is, or what could be?
A new poll for all of my darlings is available, and if you have not seen any of the films on the list, I highly recommend all of them.
For militant extreme environmentalists to garner enough power to actually do this, there would have to be truly noticeable evidence that the climate is ruined, and by then it would be too late. It’s practically too late now, but it will likely take a few decades for the most dire effects to enter the mainstream consciousness.
One of the best solutions is to have less people, and quickly. Genocide is horrific, yes, but less so than near total extinction caused by inaction. This does lead to the question of if we deserve to survive, given genocide was our only option left, or at least the one we chose in this situation, and whether mass death by inaction or action is more morally wrong.
Hello my friends, I have a few things extra to update y'all on!
So, as you all probably knew, we in TSP just finished our delegate elections. We had two candidates, PenguinPies and Amerion.
The winner of the election and TSP's newest Delegate-elect is Amerion!
And, if you didn't know, Independence Day is very soon, and we plan on celebrating that the best we can! Please feel free to join the South Pacific Independence Day 2020 festival!
We use something similar but different spelling
kerfuffle noun, informal (UK)
Definition of kerfuffle
: a disturbance or commotion typically caused by a dispute or conflict
In all the kerfuffle, nobody seemed to have noticed Harry, which suited him perfectly.
— J. K. Rowling
“'Biden will impose a socialist takeover of health care,' the talking points document reads. 'He will massively cut Medicare and Social Security.' (Biden, who has fought against Medicare-for-all, supports adding a public Medicare option for those without private health insurance and increasing funding for Social Security.)"
Yep, Biden is going to usher in a socialist paradise by cutting two indisputably socialist programs. The troubling thing is that there are people out there who will completely believe this. However, I think that most people who cannot define "socialism" are voting for Trump in any case.
For international context: "conservatives" calling people or things any variant of "socialist" in the US is basically saying that they are "sh1tty." I do not have hard data to back it up but I get the sense that about 90% of "conservatives" have no idea what socialism is. It has become a synonym for "un-American" in those circles. I use quotes around conservatives because intelligent ones (think William Buckley) have mostly vanished and been replaced by jingoistic idiots who drive lifted pickup trucks and think that pop country is high art. Unfortunately, these "conservatives" have the ability to convince a lot of apathetic people to vote against their own self-interest.
I hope everyone is well! I just wanted to check, but would there be any issues if I posted on the Forest News thread? I know there has not been a post since 2018, and I just wanted to make sure there wouldn't be any issues. Thanks!
Haha, remember when "she thinks my tractor's sexy" was the trashiest pop-country song? Lol, those were simpler days.
But absolutely, "socialist" and "communist" are all-purpose insults used by so-called conservatives to be used indiscriminately at anything that is perceived as "leftist," with the strong subtext of being anti-American or un-American. And it's usually conflated with things that the "education cartel" tries to "brainwash YOUR children" with so that they can "ruin this country" with their "radical leftist" ideas.
For informal research purposes, I sometimes look at Tucker Carlson from Fox Myths, since he is the most-watched show on the most-watched cable news network in the United States. His scripts and "rationales" for things are so bogus and poorly done, it makes you wonder whether there even is an articulated argument for the "conservative" side anymore. If there is, it's like the secret knowledge of Gnosticism or something, and is a very well-guarded secret. In the Seven Levels of Disagreement, everything that I come across from conservative American media is just name-calling or ad hominem attacks, interspersed with contrary statements that are neither scrutinized nor logically coherent. If there are actual conservative arguments to be made in American politics anymore, they are better kept secrets than the Vatican archives.
On a sidenote, I also particularly find that the eternal boogeymen of communism and socialism in the United States ring hollow, because everybody in power is always on the side of money and profits. It's laughable that anyone with even a lick of real power in the United States would try to blow up the economic systems that have made America the wealthiest country in the world. It's as crazy as suggesting that if "they don't hold things together" in Saudi Arabia, "the next thing you know," women are going to run naked through the streets and burn down mosques and have sex with each other in the ruins while the men and the military faint from terror and curl up and die, thus bringing the wrath of Allah down on the country!!! Gimme a break. @__@
Ok, I am a somewhat articulate 2020 "Conservative:"
We need to to privatize everything and cut corpoate taxes/regulations because CEOs making 300 times as much as workers is not enough. It is a well-known fact that money trickles down (That is the reason why the economy has been thriving under Trump. The stock market is the only legitimate indicator of economic health.). Ronald Reagan proved that during his presidency while he singlehandedly ended the Soviet Union by riding into Moscow on a tank playing a guitar solo while having a bald eagle perched on his shoulder! Also, the Establishment Clause of the First Amendment clearly was written to allow evangelical Christianity to be the de jure official religion of the USA. That is quite obvious if it is read by originalist judges instead of those commie ones who have the crazy belief that 'Murca has changed since the eighteenth century. /s
Tucker Carlson is terrible! I remember when he was just a kook who liked bowties. The only FNC anchor that I can stand is Chris Wallace. I actually watch his Sunday program here and there.
On the topic of financial inequality, I am reading a book which touches on some of the causes of it today. It is Disrupted: My Misadventure in the Start Up Bubble by Daniel Lyons and I recommend it!