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Entitize

Drasnia wrote:Here's my list of regions to consider. Most of them are because they are small and inactive. Any further reasoning will be explained in (parentheses):

Futaba Aoi
Evergreen Conifer
The Federation of Anarchist Communes
Singapore
Eladen (Undivulged Principles very occasionally posts on our RMB but the region otherwise looks pretty dead. I think there might be some historical reasons for keeping this one?)
A Liberal Haven
Hippy Haven (While the RMB looks semi-active, a lot of the posts are just ambassadors reposting their own regions' stuff)

We first opened the Embassy with Hippy Haven 8 years ago sooo IDK if that is a reason to keep it because we have been together for 8 years???

edit: It also looks like one of the first region's we opened with (Hippiedom) was a precursor to Hippy Haven.

Evergreen Conifer and FAC are reasonable because they have officially closed down. Futaba Aoi is reasonable because despite the 8-year history, it has been inactive for half of that time.

I'm opposed to closing Singapore because it still does have a community, even if not one that's been active recently. Unlike Futaba Aoi, all the players who were active in Singapore when we opened up the embassy are still there (including Victoriaans Nederlands), just currently busy IRL.

I wouldn't necessarily be opposed to taking a look at whether it would be okay to let Hippy Haven go. They're a successor to a very old embassy, and they still have a decent population, but I can't really recall much about them.

Eladen is our second-oldest embassy, at 8 years and 250 days of existence. The top dispatch pinned on their WFE is a joint event with us, illustrative of how valuable that relationship is to them. There's a certain value to retaining markers of our history, a value that needs to be balanced with our evident urge to get rid of anything remotely inactive. Eladen's embassy is a valuable indicator of our history and the strength of the relationships we want to have with embassies. I don't think the fact that they only have 30 nations is a compelling-enough reason to override that, and certainly not a compelling-enough reason to act wantonly in closing embassies as part of a big list while we're "on a roll".

A Liberal Haven's decline was not a choice, but rather came about as the result of a raid in late 2016 by The Invaders. Before the raid, it was a reasonably active community; after that, it was forced to password and never became active again. That was also the raid that got me involved in defending. I don't know if I'd say I'm opposed to closing it, but I think we need to be a lot more careful in how we go about this than just sweeping them all out the door without a care as an "August Cleaning".

---------------------------------------

I actually think we're looking in mostly the wrong place for which embassies to close (other than FAC, Futaba Aoi, and Evergreen Conifer, which all are quite reasonable). The regions we should be closing embassies with are the ones who, despite maintaining activity, have never interacted with us in any way. Think about a region like Oatland, which, while on the smaller end as our embassy regions go and not our closest ally, has invited us to their sport tournaments every year, submitted photos to our Photo Contest, and joined us on N-Day for the past three years. Now think about a region like Union of Free Nations, which is more than a third again Oatland's size, and is indisputably active. In the eyes of the August Cleaners up above, UoFN gets a free pass simply because it's active. But how actually have they ever interacted with us, or vice versa? We invite them to the Photo Contest every year, and they never show up. We've never heard anything from them on our RMB. I recall I joined their Discord server once and no one even remembered that Forest was an embassy region.

I'm not saying that they're a bad region. But in my eyes, an embassy region that is active but nonetheless devalues and leaves for inactive its embassy is less worth keeping around than one that is inactive but created a meaningful relationship. A Liberal Haven, Eladen, Singapore -- they all mean something to the people on both sides of the embassy (even if it's only the older people and the history geeks). Union of Free Nations, Sunalaya, Winterfell -- there's no history there. Those relationships mean nothing to either side of the embassy. Those are the ones I suggest we think about closing.

Mount Seymour wrote:Eladen is our second-oldest embassy, at 8 years and 250 days of existence. The top dispatch pinned on their WFE is a joint event with us, illustrative of how valuable that relationship is to them. There's a certain value to retaining markers of our history, a value that needs to be balanced with our evident urge to get rid of anything remotely inactive. Eladen's embassy is a valuable indicator of our history and the strength of the relationships we want to have with embassies.

...

But in my eyes, an embassy region that is active but nonetheless devalues and leaves for inactive its embassy is less worth keeping around than one that is inactive but created a meaningful relationship. A Liberal Haven, Eladen, Singapore -- they all mean something to the people on both sides of the embassy (even if it's only the older people and the history geeks).

It warms the heart of this "history geek" to hear those sentiments. I'd chisel them into every region's embassy policy, were it up to me :)

Mount Seymour wrote:Evergreen Conifer and FAC are reasonable because they have officially closed down. Futaba Aoi is reasonable because despite the 8-year history, it has been inactive for half of that time.

I'm opposed to closing Singapore because it still does have a community, even if not one that's been active recently. Unlike Futaba Aoi, all the players who were active in Singapore when we opened up the embassy are still there (including Victoriaans Nederlands), just currently busy IRL.

...

Those relationships mean nothing to either side of the embassy. Those are the ones I suggest we think about closing.

Didnt realize the depth of relationship's between the embassies. I guess August Cleaning isn't as simple as activity. Whoops.

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http://malawi.si/Malawi/index.html

Mount Seymour wrote:Union of Free Nations, Sunalaya, Winterfell -- there's no history there. Those relationships mean nothing to either side of the embassy. Those are the ones I suggest we think about closing.

Once we've got the obvious closures out of the way we could do with reflecting on embassies such as these. We've presumably still got all the telegrams they sent to suggest embassies with us. Did things work out the way we thought in the beginning?

But before we get to that we need to see if we are holding up our end of the bargain. Middle Barael probably has more up-to-date information than me, but last I checked our ambassador to Winterfell CTEd and we've never sent an ambassador to Sunalaya or Union of Free Nations.

Drasnia, Mount Seymour, Atsvea, Ruinenlust, and 7 othersLord Dominator, Palos heights, Turbeaux, Outer Bele Levy Epies, Entitize, Lousykitty, and Middle Barael

Mozworld wrote:Once we've got the obvious closures out of the way we could do with reflecting on embassies such as these. We've presumably still got all the telegrams they sent to suggest embassies with us. Did things work out the way we thought in the beginning?

But before we get to that we need to see if we are holding up our end of the bargain. Middle Barael probably has more up-to-date information than me, but last I checked our ambassador to Winterfell CTEd and we've never sent an ambassador to Sunalaya or Union of Free Nations.

Indeed, the most recent ambassador was Southern cascadian states, but they have CTEd, and they have not been replaced because BARELY ANYONE HAS VOLUNTEERED AS AMBASSADORS, and most of those who were previously ambassadors HAVE NOT RESPONDED TO MY TELEGRAMS!!!

<Heavy breathing intensifies>

Please, serve your region well and enlist. WE NEED YOU to become a Forest ambassador!

Forest Ambassadorships

Thank you for your interest in filling the role of Ambassador on behalf of Forest! As an Ambassador, you will fulfill a vital role, serving as the primary link and liaison between us and our friends in other regions. The duties of an Ambassador are assigned by the Forest Keeper and the designated Foreign Minister of Forest, and may change from time to time or in response to specific events, but the basics are fairly straightforward:

Duties of a Forest Ambassador

1) Regularly visit your embassy region's page, and keep current on any notable discussion in their RMB or forums.

2) Make sure to introduce yourself to the region on their RMB, and occasionally chime in to say hello, participate in their conversations where it's appropriate, and respond to any inquiries about Forest. If your assigned region has a foreign minister, make sure to directly contact them on your arrival to say hello and make yourself known.

3) Notify the region when Forest has an event that our allies are welcome to join, and notify Forest when the ally has an event we can join. This can often be readily accomplished by cross-posting the link to an event’s dispatch.

4) If something major goes down (positive, negative, or just especially interesting), pass along word to Forest's government so we are aware of what is going on. This might include things like elections for executive positions, major changes in laws, or dangerous events like raids.

5) Comply with the laws and rules of the embassy region where you are working! Remember that you are serving as a representative of all of Forest, so please act appropriately and in accordance with the guidelines of that region’s government. If a situation comes up where you do not feel like you can legitimately act in such a manner, please immediately notify Forest’s government for guidance and support.

6) Other minor tasks may come up, but generally speaking, an Ambassadorship is a social role focused on maintaining pleasant relationships with our friends in other regions, and ensuring easy two-way communications should the need arise.

Frequently Asked Questions

Q: Do I have to move there?
A: No, you don’t have to move there. The nation we know you as should remain a resident of Forest. Many regions permit embassy allies to post to their RMB, so you should be able to communicate effectively in that manner, if you wish to use your primary Forest account as your Ambassador persona.

Q: Can I use or move there with an alt?
A: Absolutely! This is encouraged, if the embassy region permits it, as it lets you fully immerse yourself in the embassy region’s culture and communications. It is polite to verify with the region’s government that they are ok with ambassadors in residence (smaller regions in particular may like to know everybody they have present), but generally speaking regions are very welcoming to ambassadors.

Q: How much should I participate?
A: Some regions are happy to have resident ambassadors participate fully as citizens, while others will draw a distinction between “full time” residents and those who represent outside interests. Generally speaking, when you first introduce yourself would be a good time to ask how much they would like you to participate. If given no guidance, I would suggest that it is appropriate to be social and join discussions, but is probably best to refrain from voting on weighty matters of government in regional polls, unless specifically invited to do so. Ambassadors are there to communicate with regional governments, not change them.

Q: What if I don’t know how to respond to a query?
A: Contact the Forest Keeper and Foreign Minister! You aren’t expected to know everything, have all the answers, or make policy decisions and commitments. You’re there to help make sure questions and answers move smoothly back and forth, and to facilitate the passage of information between governments.

Does being an ambassador sound like it might be for you? Contact Uan aa Boa about open opportunities with the Forest ambassador program!

Current ambassadors:

Chan island (Ambassador to The Bar on the corner of every region)
Daarwyrth (Ambassador to the Rejected Realms)
East skirsburg (Ambassador to Europe)
Garbelia (Ambassador to Antarctica)
Kawastyselir (Ambassador to Hippy Haven)
Mount Seymour (Ambassador to the South Pacific)
Mozworld (Ambassador to A Liberal Haven)
Nation of ecologists (Ambassador to Spiritus and Libertarian Socialist Confederation)
Northern Wood (Ambassador to Texas)
Ownzone (Ambassador to The Region That Has No Big Banks)
Lura (Ambassador to The Leftist Assembly)
Uan aa Boa (Ambassador to Philosophy 115 and Haiku)

Read dispatch

I know I don't have nearly as much influence or status in this region, but I'm gonna have to concur with Seymour. If we closed the embassies with inactive regions but that Forest has history with, yeah, you'd be closing down an embassy with an inactive region, but that would leave you with embassy regions that are considered "active" but we ultimately have nothing to do with. Forest would essentially be on the bare minimum of not-isolated.

Should region size even be a condition for embassy cleanup? You can have a region considered active while it only has a fraction of the nations Forest has, arugably.

Mozworld wrote:Once we've got the obvious closures out of the way we could do with reflecting on embassies such as these. We've presumably still got all the telegrams they sent to suggest embassies with us. Did things work out the way we thought in the beginning?

But before we get to that we need to see if we are holding up our end of the bargain. Middle Barael probably has more up-to-date information than me, but last I checked our ambassador to Winterfell CTEd and we've never sent an ambassador to Sunalaya or Union of Free Nations.

This is the interesting part to me. I'm not 100% on the policy for Forest, but usually ambassadors are sent to new embassy regions relatively quickly. Did this just slip through for UOFN and Sunalaya?

Lousykitty wrote:I know I don't have nearly as much influence or status in this region, but I'm gonna have to concur with Seymour. If we closed the embassies with inactive regions but that Forest has history with, yeah, you'd be closing down an embassy with an inactive region, but that would leave you with embassy regions that are considered "active" but we ultimately have nothing to do with. Forest would essentially be on the bare minimum of not-isolated.

Should region size even be a condition for embassy cleanup? You can have a region considered active while it only has a fraction of the nations Forest has, arugably.

This is the interesting part to me. I'm not 100% on the policy for Forest, but usually ambassadors are sent to new embassy regions relatively quickly. Did this just slip through for UOFN and Sunalaya?

No, the problem is we have a ton of embassies, but quite few volunteers. Also, we try to send our new volunteers to more active regions, as what is the point of sending an ambassador to an abandoned region if their are big and busy regions instead?

Those are all excellent points, Mount Seymour. I think that's an important aspect of things: just because an embassy is small and quiet, that doesn't mean it ought to go, and just because an embassy is large and internally active, that doesn't mean it ought to stay. In fact, I'd say that a lack of any shared community or activity is just as important--if not more so--than whether a region is "too small" or "too inactive" to qualify. (Notwithstanding regions that have formally folded, like FAC and EC, since there's also no potentiality with them, unlike with a functioning region.) There is absolutely an historical perspective needed when evaluating an embassy. I would be very loathe to even vote on closing Eladen, A Liberal Haven, or Singapore, as they have been top-grade embassies in the past, and neither are they atrophied to the degree of, say, Futaba Aoi. I used to have a puppet (very rare for me, lol) in Hippy Haven, and I can personally vouch that they are a beautiful community in their own way. Their region has gone further towards eventual extinction than the other three, perhaps, but I would not be willing to pull the plug on them yet.

I particularly like your idea of thinking about closing a few of the embassies that may be more active, but that don't have anything to do with us. I'd say that UoFN, Sunalaya, and Winterfell's lack of mutual communication with us ought to count towards viewing them with a more critical lens. That's something that hasn't really been said, but it's a nuance that we should bear in mind. At this point, I'd be more than happy to clip some of the deadest, most easily agreed-upon branches: Futaba Aoi, Evergreen Conifer, and The Federation of Anarchist Communes. Nobody seems to have a problem with voting on them. To me, that constitutes both "being on a roll" and an "August cleaning," lol, considering that we've often just let them sit there. We can pause after that, certainly. :-)

I've already said that closing embassies is not a light matter, that we've been discussing this as a region on and off for years now, and that everyone should visit the regions in question, discuss it, etc. I don't mean to give the impression of a wanton closure of a big list of regions, or of wanting to "just sweep them out the door," in any way. To me, an embassy is a public, enduring statement of connection with a region, and that means that they neither be taken up or laid aside lightly. I would also say that insofar as Forest itself grows larger, there is also nothing wrong with gradually building a larger and larger network of embassies, either, since that reflects that our own region has more individuals and therefore more potential outward connections. To the extent that I ever want to close an embassy, it's because it seems to literally just be sitting there, and if the other region is also dead unto itself, that makes it all the more superfluous. But just to be explicit about it: I'm not an iconoclast.

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Edit: Middle Barael, you will get there. Your enthusiasm is much greater for maintaining the ambassadors than mine ever was. It's all good. No heavy breathing necessary. :-)

Middle Barael wrote:No, the problem is we have a ton of embassies, but quite few volunteers. Also, we try to send our new volunteers to more active regions, as what is the point of sending an ambassador to an abandoned region if their are big and busy regions instead?

Would love to be an ambassador for Forest (I've become way more active recently thanks to reinvigorated interest) but a quick glance at the Ambassadors page shows no indication of how the hiring process for ambassadors work. It's just an explanation of the duties, which I imagine you would already have explained to you when you get hired as an ambassador. Do I need former experience as an ambassador or as governmental authority for another region? Do I have to have a certain pattern of behavior on the Forest RMB? Or are ambassadors chosen by the Forest government themselves?

I know it would be down the long line of priorities, but as the ambassador to Hippy Haven I would strongly discourage closing the embassy with them. They have a founder who is active in NS gameplay, a WA delegate, and their population has been slowly increasing within the past year. Their values, vibe, and statistics are something to be admired by any resident of Forest. They're also one of our oldest embassy strongholds (with Hippiedom already mentioned as a precursor embassy region.) I think it's a testament to the idea that RMB inactivity alone shouldn't be a disqualifying reason for embassy closure.

Lousykitty wrote:Would love to be an ambassador for Forest (I've become way more active recently thanks to reinvigorated interest) but a quick glance at the Ambassadors page shows no indication of how the hiring process for ambassadors work. It's just an explanation of the duties, which I imagine you would already have explained to you when you get hired as an ambassador. Do I need former experience as an ambassador or as governmental authority for another region? Do I have to have a certain pattern of behavior on the Forest RMB? Or are ambassadors chosen by the Forest government themselves?

Just ask Middle Barael. There are not a ton of duties TBH, but they will be explained to you. Still probably a good idea to highlight the asking part in your dispatch MB!

Lousykitty wrote:Would love to be an ambassador for Forest (I've become way more active recently thanks to reinvigorated interest) but a quick glance at the Ambassadors page shows no indication of how the hiring process for ambassadors work. It's just an explanation of the duties, which I imagine you would already have explained to you when you get hired as an ambassador. Do I need former experience as an ambassador or as governmental authority for another region? Do I have to have a certain pattern of behavior on the Forest RMB? Or are ambassadors chosen by the Forest government themselves?

No, you simply volunteer, and if the spot is open and you seem to be responsible at it, you get the post. If you don’t know where you want to work at, you can tell us about yourself and we’ll try to find an embassy for you. Just send me a telegram

Middle Barael wrote:No, you simply volunteer, and if the spot is open and you seem to be responsible at it, you get the post. If you don’t know where you want to work at, you can tell us about yourself and we’ll try to find an embassy for you. Just send me a telegram

Alright, thanks!

Alas, the glory that was Futaba Aoi :(

If anyone is on the fence over whether to close the embassy with Futaba Aoi, I'll just point out that Steenia, founder of the region, ceased to exist a while back and when they resurrected themselves they didn't bother returning to their region.

Socialistic england

Sorry to bother you all but hello everybody.

Instead of closing embassies with regions forest has a long history with perhaps we shouldn't have opened a new one with New West Indies, despite amalgamation with other regions the embassy instigator Funky Goats already organized two other failed embassies with Forest. Three strikes and your out?

Forrester wrote:Instead of closing embassies with regions forest has a long history with perhaps we shouldn't have opened a new one with New West Indies, despite amalgamation with other regions the embassy instigator Funky Goats already organized two other failed embassies with Forest. Three strikes and your out?

Futaba Aoi might have a long history with Forest, but I don't see that as a reason not to close it; making way for NWI or not. The region is functionally dead; no RMB post for about a year, a password that would prevent potential growth, a founder that's currently still in a sinker and a population of only 3. NWI on the other hand could quite potentially be quite an active ally of ours. Don't really know much about the business with Conifer and EC, but I doubt that it was anything that would warrant us being much harsher on them this time.

Mozworld wrote:If anyone is on the fence over whether to close the embassy with Futaba Aoi, I'll just point out that Steenia, founder of the region, ceased to exist a while back and when they resurrected themselves they didn't bother returning to their region.

That was kind of what put it over the edge for me. I don't think anyone in this region has any relationship with the remaining nations. So it would make more sense to me to invite Steenia to join Forest than to keep an embassy with a functionally dead region. But unless we see a drastic change in voting behaviour it seems closure is basically a done deal.

Terrabod wrote:In the ideal world in my head prisons are primarily institutions of rehabilitation... so abolishing prisons would mean that criminals don't get the mental health assistance/support to get out of the poverty cycle/etc that stops them reoffending.

If prisons were really like that then abolishing them would be a big mistake, but unfortunately the world in my head isn't the real world. Most prisons nowadays just lock people away from society which also lowers crime rates (as Drasnia says) but I'm an idealist so I think there's a wrong way to go about lowering crime rates.

I also think killing people is "a wrong way to go about lowering crime rates", but that's a different debate.

When I say "abolish prisons" I think of "instead of having prisons that isolate people from the world let's provide them rehabilitation and reintegrate them into society". Of course the game didn't think the same way, I guess. I asked the question from my perspective but I hear both of you. I am quite the idealist myself.

As a famously nostalgic nation, given the region is locked and Steenia has returned I’d be okay closing embassies with Futaba. I remember being proud of that get when it happened but times passes. I would caution against Hippy Haven and Eladen as there are active players there who would rightfully be confused and hurt if we closed embassies.

I have an idea: if a region with not enough WA nations wants to keep the embassy with Forest, all the nations in that region must give me all of the legendary cards they have or find.

And the ones they have or find on their puppets.

Including sleepers.

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