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«12. . .1,9391,9401,9411,9421,9431,9441,945. . .2,6342,635»

Frieden-und Freudenland wrote:Thank you. I will now have nightmares about this tonight.

Also, murine is a nice adjective. Not sure how often it will come handy, but it is useful to know. Putting it in the same compartment of my brain where I have fancy Latin adjectives like bovine, porcine, ursine, etc.

Thank you (I think)

Also, yeah I like using he different family and subfamily adjectives, though I’m am a pedant when it comes to felid vs feline (Lions and Tigers are NOT felines, people!)

Also, this reminds me of a conversation I had with Myordas a few days ago:
What should the regional animals of Forest be? Specifically:

-What should the regional Aquatic Animal be?
-What should the regional bird be?
-What should the regional Mammal be?
-Regional reptile?
-Regional amphibian?
-Regional insect?
-Regional fungus?
-Regional bacteria?
-Regional flower?

Of course all of these would be unofficial

Middle Barael wrote:Thank you (I think)Also, yeah I like using he different family and subfamily adjectives, though I’m am a pedant when it comes to felid vs feline (Lions and Tigers are NOT felines, people!)

https://www.britannica.com/animal/feline

Britannica got it wrong?

Wiki has it like this: "Felidae (/ˈfɛlɪdiː/) is a family of mammals in the order Carnivora, colloquially referred to as cats, and constitutes a clade. A member of this family is also called a felid (/ˈfiːlɪd/).[3][4][5][6] The term "cat" refers both to felids in general and specifically to the domestic cat (Felis catus).[7] "

Love and Nature wrote:I think this is a great example how so many of us has lost touch with the nature and "real world". It's after all just a little mouse. And I'm not trying to be sarcastic or anything nor point finger, just thinking out loud. Generation by generation we become more alienated from the nature.

I see what you're saying, and personally when it's happened to me having mice around the house hasn't bothered me, but it clearly causes distress to FuF on a visceral, instinctive level. The way some people freak out around spiders might also suggest a disconnect from nature (if you're not in the tropics what are they going to do to you anyway?) but that's no comfort to the person having that reaction. A colleague of mine grew up and still lives on a farm so she's not squeamish or unfamiliar with the animal kingdom, but at the first sign of any kind of rodent all you'll see of her is her back vanishing into the distance. I have things I'm uncomfortable with that seem inexplicable to others - maybe you do too. Do we have any compelling reason to think these reactions happened less in the past?

Love and Nature wrote:https://www.britannica.com/animal/feline

Britannica got it wrong?

Wiki has it like this: "Felidae (/ˈfɛlɪdiː/) is a family of mammals in the order Carnivora, colloquially referred to as cats, and constitutes a clade. A member of this family is also called a felid (/ˈfiːlɪd/).[3][4][5][6] The term "cat" refers both to felids in general and specifically to the domestic cat (Felis catus).[7] "

No, they are right

My point is that Felinae is a subfamily, not a family, and it only includes "Small cats"

Thus, Lions, Tigers, and Leopards are part of Felidae and are felids, but not Felinae and they are not felines

The "Big Cat" subfamily is called Pantherinae, and Big Cats are Pantherines

Middle Barael wrote:No, they are right

My point is that Felinae is a subfamily, not a family, and it only includes "Small cats"

Thus, Lions, Tigers, and Leopards are part of Felidae and are felids, but not Felinae and they are not felines

The "Big Cat" subfamily is called Pantherinae, and Big Cats are Pantherines

But it reads like this in Britannica: "Feline, (family Felidae), any of 37 cat species that among others include the cheetah, puma, jaguar, leopard, lion, lynx, tiger, and domestic cat."

So do they use the word only in vernacular way? This image makes it pretty clear with the taxonomy but now I'm a bit puzzled and really tired also: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Felidae#Phylogeny

Edit:typo

Love and Nature wrote:But it reads like this in Britannica: "Feline, (family Felidae), any of 37 cat species that among others include the cheetah, puma, jaguar, leopard, lion, lynx, tiger, and domestic cat."

So do they use the word only in vernacular way? This image makes it pretty clear with the taxonomy but now I'm a bit puzzled and really tired also: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Felidae#Phylogeny

Edit:typo

Yeah probably they meant it in a vernacular way

Whats going on why we talking bout cats?

Atsvea, Lord Dominator, Turbeaux, Terrabod, and 2 othersMiddle Barael, and Nation of ecologists

Middle Barael wrote:No, they are right

My point is that Felinae is a subfamily, not a family, and it only includes "Small cats"

Thus, Lions, Tigers, and Leopards are part of Felidae and are felids, but not Felinae and they are not felines

The "Big Cat" subfamily is called Pantherinae, and Big Cats are Pantherines

Technically correct about the use of feline vs feild, but one must be careful with the term "big cat." That term includes cheetahs and cougars, neither of which are pantherines - both of those are actually genus Felinae!

As an aside, while "feline" vs "felid" is in this case a sub-family distinction, the "prefix-ine" terms aren't always that. "Leporine" means rabbit-like based on the family Leporidae. "Vulpine" means fox-like, derived from the tribe Vulpini. "Lupine" means wolf-related and "Leonine" means lion-related, with both terms deriving directly from a specific species term (C. lupus and P. leo respectively).

Basically, it all comes down to context. When using the term as a noun, such as in most scientific usage, the distinction between terms like feline vs felid is important. When using it as an adjective, like in the majority of daily or casual speech one hears, that distinction is neither intended nor relevant. It's basically a fancy way to say "cat-like" (or dog-like, fox-like, wolf-like, bear-like, etc).

Love and Nature wrote:I think this is a great example how so many of us has lost touch with the nature and "real world". It's after all just a little mouse. And I'm not trying to be sarcastic or anything nor point finger, just thinking out loud. Generation by generation we become more alienated from the nature.

Edit: And I just learned musophobia is one of the most common specific phobias. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fear_of_mice_and_rats

Uan aa Boa wrote:I see what you're saying, and personally when it's happened to me having mice around the house hasn't bothered me, but it clearly causes distress to FuF on a visceral, instinctive level. The way some people freak out around spiders might also suggest a disconnect from nature (if you're not in the tropics what are they going to do to you anyway?) but that's no comfort to the person having that reaction. A colleague of mine grew up and still lives on a farm so she's not squeamish or unfamiliar with the animal kingdom, but at the first sign of any kind of rodent all you'll see of her is her back vanishing into the distance. I have things I'm uncomfortable with that seem inexplicable to others - maybe you do too. Do we have any compelling reason to think these reactions happened less in the past?

I kinda agree with you both.

Some fears, for example the fear of snakes, are thought to be instinctual in primates. They were dangerous to us throughout the course of evolution, and we have come to develop a natural, often irrepressible disgust to and fear of them; and this kneejerk reaction is meant to keep us alive. Take a chimp that has never seen a snake, expose them to one, and they will be unsettled.

I am not sure if the fear of mice has evolutionary origins like this, or whether it is mainly culturally conditioned. Anyone who knows a bit about history knows about how devastating the Black Death was, and that mice were the main vectors for the fleas that carried the plague bacterium. While plague is no longer a concern in many parts of the globe (incl. Eastern US), it is perhaps hard to shake off the deeply engrained knowledge of how dangerous mice and rats have been to us for a long time.

What Uan says perfectly captures how I feel. It is more or less a visceral reaction. It may not be a very rational fear, but most fears aren't anyway. It just makes me intensely uncomfortable.

The new bluestocking homeland, Atsvea, Ruinenlust, Love and Nature, and 7 othersLord Dominator, Auphelia, Uan aa Boa, Turbeaux, Middle Barael, Nation of ecologists, and ProForestation

Verdant Haven wrote:Technically correct about the use of feline vs feild, but one must be careful with the term "big cat." That term includes cheetahs and cougars, neither of which are pantherines - both of those are actually genus Felinae!

As an aside, while "feline" vs "felid" is in this case a sub-family distinction, the "prefix-ine" terms aren't always that. "Leporine" means rabbit-like based on the family Leporidae. "Vulpine" means fox-like, derived from the tribe Vulpini. "Lupine" means wolf-related and "Leonine" means lion-related, with both terms deriving directly from a specific species term (C. lupus and P. leo respectively).

Basically, it all comes down to context. When using the term as a noun, such as in most scientific usage, the distinction between terms like feline vs felid is important. When using it as an adjective, like in the majority of daily or casual speech one hears, that distinction is neither intended nor relevant. It's basically a fancy way to say "cat-like" (or dog-like, fox-like, wolf-like, bear-like, etc).

Yeah I know that Cheetahs and Pumas are felines, I just didn’t realize that the term Big Cats included them.

And thanks for the tip with -ines, I had always thought that -one corresponded with -inae, which is the suffix for most subfamilies

The new bluestocking homeland, Atsvea, Lord Dominator, Turbeaux, and 1 otherNation of ecologists

Frieden-und Freudenland wrote:I am not sure if the fear of mice has evolutionary origins like this, or whether it is mainly culturally conditioned. Anyone who knows a bit about history knows about how devastating the Black Death was, and that mice were the main vectors for the fleas that carried the plague bacterium. While plague is no longer a concern in many parts of the globe (incl. Eastern US), it is perhaps hard to shake off the deeply engrained knowledge of how dangerous mice and rats have been to us for a long time.

The Black Death is actually know as the Second Plague Pandemic, with the so-called First Plague Pandemic lasting from 541-767CE (roughly 600 years before the Black Death). However, it's widely accepted that Yersinia pestis, the species of bacteria which causes the disease, has been infecting humans since prehistoric times. When you mention mice as the carriers of the flea vector, I think you're mixing that up with the idea that black rats spread the plague. This in itself is something of a misconception; while Y. pestis likely hitched a ride to Europe via black rats that stowed away on merchant ships, once it arrived onshore in Europe it was transmitted primarily by human fleas (which were rife because living conditions were so filthy) and person-to-person aerosol contact.

That's not to say that mice and rats aren't carriers of disease in a more general sense. I don't doubt that mice and rats have been transmitting diseases to humans since prehistoric times, and that could mean there is an evolutionary origin to the fear of rodents in the same way that our fear of the grotesque probably originates from prehistoric ideas of what 'healthy' and 'infectious' look like.

Frieden-und Freudenland wrote:Thank you. I will now have nightmares about this tonight.

Also, murine is a nice adjective. Not sure how often it will come handy, but it is useful to know. Putting it in the same compartment of my brain where I have fancy Latin adjectives like bovine, porcine, ursine, etc.

Erinaceous is, I think, my favorite adjective of that type.

Frieden-und Freudenland wrote:I kinda agree with you both.

Some fears, for example the fear of snakes, are thought to be instinctual in primates. They were dangerous to us throughout the course of evolution, and we have come to develop a natural, often irrepressible disgust to and fear of them; and this kneejerk reaction is meant to keep us alive. Take a chimp that has never seen a snake, expose them to one, and they will be unsettled.

I am not sure if the fear of mice has evolutionary origins like this, or whether it is mainly culturally conditioned. Anyone who knows a bit about history knows about how devastating the Black Death was, and that mice were the main vectors for the fleas that carried the plague bacterium. While plague is no longer a concern in many parts of the globe (incl. Eastern US), it is perhaps hard to shake off the deeply engrained knowledge of how dangerous mice and rats have been to us for a long time.

What Uan says perfectly captures how I feel. It is more or less a visceral reaction. It may not be a very rational fear, but most fears aren't anyway. It just makes me intensely uncomfortable.

There's certainly an element of cultural, or at least geographical, conditioning. Here in New England mice are pretty common, but there are zero lizards, nearly no large spiders, and not too many cockroaches. If someone from around here encountered one of those like you did with your mouse -- even if they were in another country -- they'd likely have the same reaction as you. Mice, on the other hand, are just "ugh, we've got some mice". But there's nothing inherently more dangerous about a lizard or a cockroach compared to a mouse. Just what we've gotten used to.

The new bluestocking homeland, Frieden-und Freudenland, Atsvea, Ruinenlust, and 6 othersLord Dominator, Uan aa Boa, Turbeaux, Terrabod, Middle Barael, and Nation of ecologists

Mount Seymour wrote:Erinaceous is, I think, my favorite adjective of that type.

There's certainly an element of cultural, or at least geographical, conditioning. Here in New England mice are pretty common, but there are zero lizards, nearly no large spiders, and not too many cockroaches. If someone from around here encountered one of those like you did with your mouse -- even if they were in another country -- they'd likely have the same reaction as you. Mice, on the other hand, are just "ugh, we've got some mice". But there's nothing inherently more dangerous about a lizard or a cockroach compared to a mouse. Just what we've gotten used to.

Yup, and that is certainly different for me. In Istanbul, we occasionally had issues with the so-called Oriental cockroaches. Disgusting, to be sure, but not as unsettling to me as mice are. A born-and-raised New Englander might find this reverse asymmetry baffling.

Ruinenlust wrote:Wow, an Uan aa Boa, Palos Heights, and Darths and Droids post back-to-back-to-back! It's like old times. :-)

...old times? Am I considered part of the regional elite now? Hmmm... eh, I'll take it.

The new bluestocking homeland, Frieden-und Freudenland, Ownzone, Atsvea, and 8 othersRuinenlust, Lord Dominator, Auphelia, Uan aa Boa, Turbeaux, Terrabod, Middle Barael, and Nation of ecologists

Darths and Droids wrote:...old times? Am I considered part of the regional elite now? Hmmm... eh, I'll take it.

Thank Hiort I keep CTE'ing, else people would keep calling me old too.

The new bluestocking homeland, Ownzone, Atsvea, Lord Dominator, and 7 othersUan aa Boa, Palos heights, Turbeaux, Outer Bele Levy Epies, Middle Barael, Nation of ecologists, and Kursibar

Mount Seymour wrote:Erinaceous is, I think, my favorite adjective of that type.

There's certainly an element of cultural, or at least geographical, conditioning. Here in New England mice are pretty common, but there are zero lizards, nearly no large spiders, and not too many cockroaches. If someone from around here encountered one of those like you did with your mouse -- even if they were in another country -- they'd likely have the same reaction as you. Mice, on the other hand, are just "ugh, we've got some mice". But there's nothing inherently more dangerous about a lizard or a cockroach compared to a mouse. Just what we've gotten used to.

Where I live in Australia, I think I've seen a mouse maybe once in my entire life, and I'm pretty sure it was already dead too.

Spiders, on the other hand? Well summer has only just begun and they are driving me mad with how many there are even inside the house. I'm not really scared of them, but I still worry when I see one in certain places.

Lizards are uncommon but really chill creatures minding their own business, nearly always outside. Our dog attacked one once but sadly I couldn't get her away before its injuries got too bad.

Guys. Yesterday I got on and we were talking about world assembly fraud and today we’re talking about Felinae
and stuff.

Lura wrote:Where I live in Australia, I think I've seen a mouse maybe once in my entire life, and I'm pretty sure it was already dead too.

Spiders, on the other hand? Well summer has only just begun and they are driving me mad with how many there are even inside the house. I'm not really scared of them, but I still worry when I see one in certain places.

Lizards are uncommon but really chill creatures minding their own business, nearly always outside. Our dog attacked one once but sadly I couldn't get her away before its injuries got too bad.

Here in New Jersey we get a lot of Deer, Squirrels, Chipmunks, and even the occasional fox

Bugs-wise, we have a lot of spiders (though probably not as many as you), which I am deathly afraid of

I had mice in the false roof once, you could hear them skittering about in the night when you were trying to sleep, when I got a cat (not specifically for the mouse problem) She soon wanted to look up there and problem solved the mice packed their bags and moved out.

Now, I've never had mice in my house that survived for very long (I have cats), but my workplace is positively rife with the little buggers. I work at a beach, and our little maintenance building at night is super quiet. Except for the sound of little paws scurrying back and forth behind the walls. One time, my coworker opened our first-aid cabinet to find the box of band-aids all chewed up!

Our beautiful nation takes great pride in our national parks system and the forests that are the centerpiece of each city (yes you read that right. Each city here boasts a forest gathering space for human and animal alike rather than a town square, and we have taken many precautions to stop these forests from being cut down). Therefore, we have relocated to the most environmentally-supportive region, Forest, in hopes of establishing this as a permanent home for our young nation. Thank you Forest for welcoming us!

Coin lands wrote:Our beautiful nation takes great pride in our national parks system and the forests that are the centerpiece of each city (yes you read that right. Each city here boasts a forest gathering space for human and animal alike rather than a town square, and we have taken many precautions to stop these forests from being cut down). Therefore, we have relocated to the most environmentally-supportive region, Forest, in hopes of establishing this as a permanent home for our young nation. Thank you Forest for welcoming us!

Welcome to Forest! Don't forget to endorse our World Assembly Delegate Ruinenlust.

The Guide on being Friendly :D It doesnt really work!

Ha. Made you look.

Mount Seymour, Atsvea, Lord Dominator, Turbeaux, and 4 othersOuter Bele Levy Epies, Terrabod, Nation of ecologists, and Dark kreston

Coin lands wrote:Our beautiful nation takes great pride in our national parks system and the forests that are the centerpiece of each city (yes you read that right. Each city here boasts a forest gathering space for human and animal alike rather than a town square, and we have taken many precautions to stop these forests from being cut down). Therefore, we have relocated to the most environmentally-supportive region, Forest, in hopes of establishing this as a permanent home for our young nation. Thank you Forest for welcoming us!

Welcome to Forest, Coin Lands! We're delighted to have another eco-minded nation join us here amongst the trees. This is definitely a good place to be if the environment is your focus. We are a region built on our shared real-world belief in the importance of the environment, so even those nations you'll see whose stats put them on the opposite side of the spectrum are usually run by players who genuinely share this interest.

Hello neighbors and friends! Sign up for the January 2021 Wileyshire + Wildy Sports Cup!

Welcome

This is the January portion of the planned 2021-long sporting event! All games will be scored using xkorinate and all stats will be randomly generated independently for each nation and further for each event.

Sign Up

All that's needed on the part of nations is to sign up for each portion of it! To do so, please simply TG Wileyshire or Wildy asking to participate in the Jan '21 Sports Cup, and that's it, you're done!

Qualifications

To qualify to join, you must be a part of one of the following regions:
• A Liberal Haven
• Anarchy
• Democratic Socialist Assembly
• Forest
• International Democratic Union
• North Korea
• NSLeft
• Social Liberal Union
• South Pacific
• Thalassia
• The Communist Bloc
• The East Pacific
• The Internationale
• The Leftist Assembly
• The Socialist Syndicalist Union
• The Union of Democratic States

Events

There will be 12 events each month. For January, (with a Winter theme!) the events are as follows:

• Ice Hockey Tournament
• Curling Tournament
• Snowboard Halfpipe Event
• 4-person Bobsledding Event
• 2-person Bobsledding Event
• Paired Figure Skating Event
• Team Hill Ski Jumping Event
• Cross Country Skiing Relay 4x10km Event
• Downhill Alpine Skiing Event
• Luge Doubles Event
• Skeleton Event
• 5000m Speed Skate Event

The exact schedule for events will be released shortly after the beginning of January and the games will commence as scheduled from then!

Tracking and Scoring

The events will each be scored equally with points being awarded to the top 10 of each event as follows:

1st Place - 100 Points
2nd Place - 80 Points
3rd Place - 60 Points
4th Place - 40 Points
5th Place - 30 Points
6th Place - 25 Points
7th Place - 20 Points
8th Place - 15 Points
9th Place - 10 Points
10th Place - 5 Points

Wileyshire will keep track of scoring from events throughout January with bulletin posts in addition to making periodic posts in regional message boards, though these are intended to be kept light, the only guaranteed one to be the final scores near the end of the month.

Read dispatch

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